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To be fair I will employ the oreo cookie effect to the best of my ability:
The Good about Boston:
There are stuff to do BUT gotta go through a LOT of aggravation to do it like pay big to have fun on the town through transportation and parking. You get screwed coming into Boston. Some neighborhoods are nice, not saying there are none but all the loopholes and aggravation with parking and all this bs makes none of it worth doing. I am pointing out a simple truth here. See.. I cant even say anything fully good without saying something bad.. That's how bad this area has gotten.
People can be real here which can be refreshing BUT.. again another but.. it seems like people are getting faker here and many are still about appearance and how "perfect" they look. You can easily tell the working class from the non working classes much of the time. Working classes also have their cliques though. Another bad point about the area. Inability to get outside comfort zone to socialize.
Many universities: This is a good thing however, not if it comes at a very high cost or if the cities with the universities are only for college kids to where a young adult cant live there because everything revolves around the kiddies. I am no cradle robber sorry! Most people in Cambridge for instance are still protected by their parents because of their young age even though they push 21 yrs old many times. How is this a good place for someone saving money in his 30s? I am faced with high ass rents unless I am a student and I get all kinds of vouchers then.
See for all the good things there are, I have to write the bad.. I'd be disserving y'all if I didn't. I am more fit for Pulaski TN than here.
I think there's probably something in between Boston and Pulaski. Nashville's very affordable compared to Boston, is much newer but not "fake new" like Vegas or Orlando and has tons to do (and much simpler parking!) I just bring it up since you mentioned TN. Just because you don't like Boston doesn't mean you have to go 100% contrarian -- Nashville's one of my favorite cities in the US, have you ever been? Don't move to Pulaski without giving Nashville a chance first. Nashville does skew a little liberal, but compared to Boston it's like the deepest of the Deep South. It may be hard to know how truly conservative you are when you're in Boston, I know people in Alabama who would consider you to basically be a Democrat, at least from the little I've read. Just trying to help
I think there's probably something in between Boston and Pulaski. Nashville's very affordable compared to Boston, is much newer but not "fake new" like Vegas or Orlando and has tons to do (and much simpler parking!) I just bring it up since you mentioned TN. Just because you don't like Boston doesn't mean you have to go 100% contrarian -- Nashville's one of my favorite cities in the US, have you ever been? Don't move to Pulaski without giving Nashville a chance first. Nashville does skew a little liberal, but compared to Boston it's like the deepest of the Deep South. It may be hard to know how truly conservative you are when you're in Boston, I know people in Alabama who would consider you to basically be a Democrat, at least from the little I've read. Just trying to help
Knoxville was the place I thought of moreso. That now would be viable I feel. I like smaller cities where I feel I can do something without as many crowds but have the same amounts of things to do as a bigger city. I just threw Pulaski out there randomly because someone told me I should consider it once when I mentioned trying TN out one day. For New England, its Manchester/Nashua, for the South, I'd try Knoxville or that's higher on my radar anyhow.
Nashville has a different kind of liberalism for sure.. more like a true one where you in fact have gays and all that stuff, but could be into the rock scene or cowboy scene more so compared to here where they are mostly clean cut and flaming, bright clothes. The south I notice seems to have a more mountain style gay scene or you get the vibe they don't try to push it on you as much anyhow. your regular looking rocker could have tendencies in Nashville more than likely. The liberalism non gay also seems to support the right to do what you want to do more. Almost like the free staters are kinda.
So you find its hard to know how truly conservative you are when you're in Boston huh? Maybe.
Knoxville's great -- definitely more Republican than Nashville. Only reason I brought up Nashville is because it occurred to me that, while I can understand you having difficulty with Boston's liberalism and you probably feel like the most Republican person on the planet right now, once you're actually in the South you might find people out-Republicaning you because Boston really is so extreme. For instance, I consider myself to be a Democrat, but in Boston I'm probably considered at least an Independent, maybe even a Republican, in North Carolina I'm a Democrat, and in Alabama I'm a Communist. Labels are confusing
Knoxville's great -- definitely more Republican than Nashville. Only reason I brought up Nashville is because it occurred to me that, while I can understand you having difficulty with Boston's liberalism and you probably feel like the most Republican person on the planet right now, once you're actually in the South you might find people out-Republicaning you because Boston really is so extreme. For instance, I consider myself to be a Democrat, but in Boston I'm probably considered at least an Independent, maybe even a Republican, in North Carolina I'm a Democrat, and in Alabama I'm a Communist. Labels are confusing
Knoxville has a nice small skyline, cheap cost of living and nice nightlife, good social scene. The opposite of Boston right now or just about.
I'm only a commie in an extreme red state because I am the type to speak out against the govt. Unless they are strictly pro southern and anti American empire, I probably would argue a lot with that demographic also.
A city I liked was St Pete Florida believe it or not.. while it was leftist in some spots in the downtown core, had enough charm to still be nice so long as you didn't wander out of those areas and even then, the ghettos were safe compared to some I been to in California or even Lowell. Run down yes but never a vibe like I felt 100% in danger in coon town lol. Maybe in Memphis yes or Atlanta but there, not really. Tampa slightly worse but even then, not all the tension some places have. I liked Cigar City a lot and a bad area bordered that up 7th Avenue area so I am the type who likes the vibrancy, I just don't like all the crowdedness and liberalism that comes into a place sometimes and considering a bad neighborhood was near Ybor, I liked it and many whites were still roaming around so.. you weren't deathly scared to go out at night like in Boston. Last time I was in St Pete though back in 2010, enjoyable, less people, somewhat more liberal but better than Cambridge with a funky but less college kids feel to it so more for people my age (33). Its like an Asheville with less people coming in droves pretty much...slightly cheaper maybe same rent costs these days. I'd aim for a little more conservative than this but still could be a nice alternative to Orlando or Vegas or at least for me anyhow and definitely to Atlanta.
I'd be outrepublicaned in some places for sure as I don't support the US Military invading other lands. While I don't like Obama and believe hes a black racist, I think he helps more than some people would as he respects basic separation rights with the races and as we've learned in history, it can always get worse. People think Obama is the worst we had and yes hes pretty bad for sure, I think Deval would be worse by quite a bit and so would Hillary. Deval as President would be more of a joke. He cant get the audiences either that Obama can. I am pro life, but also pro choice depending. Pro life in a rational responsible homogenous society, pro choice and pro depopulation in our current multicult oriented nation. I won't say who I am just yet, but lets say I have a youtube channel where I discuss these things.
I wasn't really suggesting Boston become 24/7, more that they consider not essentially shutting down around midnight. I agree 100% that Boston should NOT be in full swing at 3 AM -- that would be fundamentally out of character. What does worry me, though, is the reticence to keep transportation running until 2 AM. Smaller cities that have seen breakneck growth over the last decade are hardly 24/7 either, but many do firmly keep things going until 2 AM every day of the week.
No argument here, but I think the upcoming program for weekend nights will be a big success and that's the biggest part of the issue at present. Every night of the week is better, but weekend nights is when it's most valuable.
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I am a native Bostonian, and having now seen a lot of smaller cities around the country for my work in tourism, I'm basically floored Boston isn't worried about population drain. Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando... this is just the tip of the iceberg. Smaller cities that were no-man's-lands just a few decades ago that now have very real industry, very real affordability, and shockingly high overall quality of life. Whether it's for you, for me, or for anyone else is really beside the point -- they're a direct threat to Boston's ability to keep growing their population, and things like bars having to pay licenses to allow dancing and public transport not running until 2 AM are larger problems that you might realize on a macro scale in terms of keeping Boston competitive.
That's because Boston has the universities to keep drawing in young people, and a stable well-developed economy. I'd argue that Boston could enact martial law, so long as the universities and best hospitals/medical establishment in the country remain there (none of which are moving, or even really able to move), the city will continue to thrive. There's too many benefits to the tech startups and such to be considering places like that. The "ecosystem" matters a great deal for tech and is hard to replicate. It also benefits from being the economic "capital" of the region, which will remain that way regardless of what it actually does.
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There was a front page article on Yahoo today about how Florida's population is about to surpass New York's, and it isn't due to people retiring -- it's due to young people choosing small cities in FL that have grown exponentially. While NY was the focus of the article, the concerns the article had for NY could just as easily be applied to Boston/MA.
And the same article says it's largely low-paying unskilled jobs that they're getting there, and that it's Hispanic population growth. Beyond that, Florida has huge structural problems (have kids? They're not going to learn much in FL schools). There isn't much indication that any desirable portion of the population (educated, white-collar jobs) is moving to FL.
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Originally Posted by table12
I am originally from Boston. I was given a slightly different story about the Convention Center, that some felt simply building a new one would be enough to at least bump business -- but that hasn't happened. And while I admire their long-term plan, purely in my own personal opinion, it truly lacks nerve. It's easy to forget Disney World went from being swampland to the country's most visited tourist attraction in less than 10 years....
....I'm not convinced their plan for the Convention Center and the immediate surrounding area is going to work because -- just like a decade ago with the opening of the new center -- it has an undercurrent of "we're Boston, of course people will come".
5 years ago I'd have agreed with most of your arguments and wouldn't be too sure it could work. I'm not convinced you've been there in the past few years. There's been pretty explosive redevelopment of the area. Everything that's been built is thriving, and a lot more is going up. You have to remember...right across Fort Point Channel is South Station and the core of Boston. This isn't going up in a vacuum that has to be held up by the BCEC. While I may not like the Silver Line, it does work well enough these days to be "good enough" transit access.
Beyond that, one of the big factors that's been holding back the BCEC and tourism in Boston is...a lack of hotel rooms (especially locally), which is finally improving with the many new hotels going up in the Seaport. I go to PAX East at the BCEC every year, which sells out the place, and that one convention is enough to sell out pretty much every hotel that's less than 45min away.
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Originally Posted by GetmeoutofMA
There are stuff to do BUT gotta go through a LOT of aggravation to do it like pay big to have fun on the town through transportation and parking. You get screwed coming into Boston. Some neighborhoods are nice, not saying there are none but all the loopholes and aggravation with parking and all this bs makes none of it worth doing. I am pointing out a simple truth here. See.. I cant even say anything fully good without saying something bad.. That's how bad this area has gotten.
Pretty much every T line has multiple parking garages at the outer stops, for anything you're "doing" in Boston, you probably ought to be parking there and taking the T in, that's why they exist. If you insist on driving in...well, you're going to have an unpleasant time, same as the people who drive into NYC.
I'm with you on most of your points. The weekend nights program will inevitably be a smash success, and hopefully will inspire a little more wiggle room with later public transportation. As for its economy, I agree Boston's legacy industries are very well-protected, but I'm not clear where any future growth is going to come from. The city's ability to grow and/or retain large tech companies is problematic.
I'm with you that Florida's growth is low-paying and Hispanic, but so what? I'm not clear on why any of that is really a problem? Obviously the character of FL is going to be dramatically different than MA, as will its strengths and weaknesses.
The last time I was at the convention center was 9 months ago. While I agree with you that the area's growing, having spent so much time working in tourism now, I'm running on a gut sense with this one. There's just not enough "there" there, if you know what I mean. It's an intangible. And it's great the shortage of hotel rooms is being addressed, but there really has to be something of a surplus for a convention center to truly take off. I won't even get into pricing -- pricing in general, whether housing, taxes, or even hotel rooms -- I think is the biggest challenge Boston faces going forward.
I appreciate your taking the time to discuss this, you make all your points very, very well.
I am originally from Boston. I was given a slightly different story about the Convention Center, that some felt simply building a new one would be enough to at least bump business -- but that hasn't happened. And while I admire their long-term plan, purely in my own personal opinion, it truly lacks nerve. It's easy to forget Disney World went from being swampland to the country's most visited tourist attraction in less than 10 years.
I'm not saying that's what should happen here, but a little more ambition would be great. If your universe is Boston-centric, it's hard to understand how hard some other places laugh at things like a 50 year revitalization plan. And while I know tourism isn't necessarily Boston's highest priority and there are so many things the city does lead at, I've always been bothered by how they tend to take that pride of leadership in some areas and sort of blanket it over everything. Witness the user a few posts up openly admitting their "top 10 convention center" statement was bogus. It's like admitting Boston might trail other places at things is heresy. I've found that if you truly care about a place, sometimes the absolute best thing you can do for it is focus soberly on its flaws and find things that could be done to actually improve them.
I'm not convinced their plan for the Convention Center and the immediate surrounding area is going to work because -- just like a decade ago with the opening of the new center -- it has an undercurrent of "we're Boston, of course people will come". Honestly, I've always had a gut sense that the whole casino thing wouldn't even be in play to begin with if the Convention Center were pulling better #'s -- it seems like a last ditch effort to grow both in and out-of-state tourism and they're just acting like they're hesitant to pass it so Boston's image won't suffer. And yes, a casino wouldn't be next door, but they'll just run buses or whatever -- it's an obvious turn-key feature benefit. I hate to say it, because at heart I love Boston, but that's honestly my take on it -- please tell me I'm wrong!
Boston is a well rounded city. It does fine with tourism - but unlike Tourism is not the primary function of Boston. And why are you concerned with growth? Boston is already grown up. The fast growing cities of the south tend to be immature. All chain stores and parking lots. Millions of people left Europe and came over here - but Dublin is still there. So is Berlin.
And the same article says it's largely low-paying unskilled jobs that they're getting there, and that it's Hispanic population growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by table12
I'm with you that Florida's growth is low-paying and Hispanic, but so what? I'm not clear on why any of that is really a problem? Obviously the character of FL is going to be dramatically different than MA, as will its strengths and weaknesses.
The Hispanics (and Latinos/as) are the future of the US. If anyone thinks non-Hispanic whites will exist in any meaningful numbers anywhere on the planet 100 years from now, they are living in a fantasy world.
What is New England going to do to stay relevant in a continent dominated by Hispanic/Latin culture?
Boston is a well rounded city. It does fine with tourism - but unlike Tourism is not the primary function of Boston. And why are you concerned with growth? Boston is already grown up. The fast growing cities of the south tend to be immature. All chain stores and parking lots. Millions of people left Europe and came over here - but Dublin is still there. So is Berlin.
Sure Dublin and Berlin are still there for now but (white) Europe has some of the lowest birthrates in the world other than Japan. The long term future of European cities will depend on what the Islamic immigrants want to do with them.
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