If the North-South Station Link were to be done in a phased build out, what lines should be done first? Second? (Boston: employment, transfer to)

[OyCrumbler]

For those who don't know, there are plans being pushed for a direct rail link between North Station and South Station.

The proposal is to build an underground tunnel following the Big Dig tunnels (the Big Dig already cleared these for utilities and are basically fresh clean dirt without the need for costly utility relocation) that will allow North Station trains to service South Station and vice versa. These trains will have to be electric because of exhaust considerations as well as the steeper incline traincars will have to manage in order to service these new, deeper platforms at both stations. The plan also includes a new station approximately where the Blue Line Aquarium station is with a transfer point to the Blue Line at that station.

The costs are fairly high, but nothing close to Big Dig high, but because tracks that allow trains to run straight through a station can handle a much larger capacity than stub end terminals where trains going in have to contend with other trains coming out to get signal priority on switching tracks to get to their berths, so this by itself greatly expands the capacity of the stations: directly via the train lines route through and indirectly because the trains that route through no longer require use of the berths at the terminals. This also allows people riding North Station lines that go through the link to directly get to the major job centers at Aquarium station, South Station, and possibly further points directly without transferring (relieving the T of some traffic during peak hours at very busy stations) and vice versa for South Station bound lines. All in all, it's a cost-effective opportunity to improve and expand MBTA commuter rail service.

The estimates bandied for this expansion are from 2 to 8 billion dollars and that's significant as it's not just the rail tunnels, but also purchasing electric traincar sets, building of the platforms, electrifying the commuter rail lines, and building portals for the lines to descend deeper from the next stations out from North Station or South Station.

That's a pretty significant cost and funding is pretty scarce, but perhaps a phased implementation where the initial cost is lower, but not all lines are served, might make this more palatable. The basic tunnel and the South Station, North Station, and Aquarium Street stations themselves must be built for this to work, but not every portal needs to be built immediately, nor does every line need to be electrified immediately, nor does purchasing enough electric traincars to service every line need to be done immediately. A minimum of at least one portal each for North Station services and South Station services does need to be built though and a minimum of one line each for North Station bound services and South Station bound services need to be electrified. In this case, what portals and lines make the most sense to build out in sequence.

Portals / Lines

South Station

Back Bay portal: Framingham/Worchester Line, Needham Line, Franklin Line, Providence / Stoughton Line

Dorchester portal (partially shared with Old Colony portal): Greenbush Line

Old Colony portal (partially shared with Dorchester portal): Middleborough / Lakeville line, Kingston / Plymouth Line

North Station:

Fitchburg portal: Fitchburg Line

Northern routes portal: Lowell Line, Haverhill Line, Newbury / Rockport Line

What portal (and which lines of these portals) should be given priority? If this were a phased build out, what priority order would you put these?

[Amontillado]

It's all a crazy idea, but if that question has to be answered, the obvious line to include would be the connection to Amtrak via Back Bay, because that's already electrified. The northern end isn't so clear, because Amtrak trains out to Maine aren't electric, so there's nothing to gain by running electric trains via the same route (which I think is actually the Lowell line, not Haverhill, as the trains head out through West Medford and Winchester, then cross over to the Haverhill line via the so-called Wildcat cutoff in Wilmington). So, whichever ex-B&M line sees the most service into North Station? I mean, there'd be no point in building an electrified connection between the stations if the trains can't run anywhere beyond North Station. But it's a mad waste of money, which could be spent way better improving transit in other ways.

[OyCrumbler]

Right, there'd have to be at least one northern line that gets electrified, but which one makes the most sense? Does any single northern line serve a greater number of employment centers than the others?

[Dave120]

I don't know a ton about the logistics of public transit, so my view is just a lay person's guess, but for what it's worth, I'd say the Back Bay Portal - Providence Line for South Station should take priority. For North Station, Northern routes portal with the electrified line being either Lowell or Haverhill (I'd lean towards Lowell).

Would the North-South rail link benefit any commuters coming in from the west (Worcester Line)?

[citylover94]

Northern line should be Lowell to start. It has the highest demand and the Haverhill line is too capacity constrained because of the one track sections to be a good candidate.

[tysmith95]

The Newburyport/Rockport line between Beverly and Salem has the highest ridership. The north shore has subpar public transportation and poor highway access, it would really benefit from more frequent service. It's also denser than many locations on the Lowell line.

On the southern end I think the Worcester line has lots of potential, espically with infill stations at Yawkey and Boston Landing.

[Boston_Burbs]

I would like to have a better blue/red connection.

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by Dave120

I don't know a ton about the logistics of public transit, so my view is just a lay person's guess, but for what it's worth, I'd say the Back Bay Portal - Providence Line for South Station should take priority. For North Station, Northern routes portal with the electrified line being either Lowell or Haverhill (I'd lean towards Lowell).

Would the North-South rail link benefit any commuters coming in from the west (Worcester Line)?

Yes, though there are two different routes to it. If this thing is done as a phased development, then the question is if the Worcester line gets electrified in the first phase. Since the Worcester line goes through Back Bay, and in a phased construction the Back Bay portal is the most sensible for the South Station bound lines, then if the first phase includes electrifying Back Bay and having enough electric traincar sets, then the Worchester lines can use the additional capacity from through-running and go through the tunnels and access the new Aquarium station (with a direct transfer to the Blue Line), North Station, and points beyond to wherever the North Station bound lines are electrified and run through.

If the first phase doesn't include electrifying the Worchester Line (and instead only the Providence line), then capacity is freed up from the Providence Line not needing to use the terminal berths and clog traffic at the interlocking as well as give up its current diesel traincar sets to other lines. In that way, the unelectrified Worchester Line still benefits because there can be higher peak frequencies for the line due to unused terminal berths and traincars from the Providence line (this holds true for all other South Station-bound lines).

Originally Posted by citylover94

Northern line should be Lowell to start. It has the highest demand and the Haverhill line is too capacity constrained because of the one track sections to be a good candidate.

Originally Posted by tysmith95

The Newburyport/Rockport line between Beverly and Salem has the highest ridership. The north shore has subpar public transportation and poor highway access, it would really benefit from more frequent service. It's also denser than many locations on the Lowell line.

On the southern end I think the Worcester line has lots of potential, espically with infill stations at Yawkey and Boston Landing.

So those are two different views--it seems like determining the priority for North Station bound line electrification isn't as clear cut. The portal is because both the Lowell and the Newburyport/Rockport lines would fork out of the same portal.

So, from the posts so far, it seems like for a phased build, South Station-bound line priorities should clearly be the Back Bay portal and the Providence Line for electrification. For North Station-bound lines, the Northern portal should be the priority, but it's unclear the order in which the lines for the Northern portal should be electrified.

For a subsequent phase, what are people's thoughts on the priority order for Back Bay portal lines and for Northern portal lines?

My crack at the order would basically be by ridership, but maybe there are other things to consider like how going with lines that have the most shared tracks and stations to Providence/Stoughton might make more sense so you get use out of parts that are sunk in and it brings the rapid transit-like frequency to those shared stations sooner. For example, if the Franklin line, which has good ridership but less so than the Worcester line, gets electrified first, then it already gets some shared electrical work done for the Providence/Stoughton line. There's the proposed Orange Line extension to Hyde Park, but that might not be necessary if the shared Providence/Stoughton and Franklin frequencies went up. The faster acceleration that electric traincars means that it won't be as much of a drag for people further down the Franklin Line if more or all Franklin electric traincars stopped at the Hyde Park station.

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

I would like to have a better blue/red connection.

Yes, connecting more nodes in a transit network has usually greatly increased how well it works. That Blue Line extension to Charles/MGH makes a good lot of sense. I know there was an attempt to do a public/private partnership to help pay for this extension, but I don't know where it left off or if it's still ongoing.

[mdovell]

Reduce the number of green line stops to make it faster. Seriously no one *really* goes just one stop.

[Amontillado]

Note the spelling of "Worcester". A lot of people want to get the H out of that place.

The sentence "The portal is because both the Lowell and the Newburyport/Rockport lines would fork out of the same portal" is unfortunately not a sentence, and it's hard to be sure what it should mean. Because of North Station's origin as a joint terminal for several different routes which originally each had a separate terminus, the lines diverge immediately after leaving the station, so for most of them there wouldn't be any possibility of a shared tunnel portal; there would have to be a long ramp down from each route that connected to the proposed tunnel, all in an urban area where the land would be hard to obtain. Looking at the map, the best bet for sharing would be the Newburyport and Haverhill lines, which stay together until Sullivan Square. Whether that's enough distance to get from a deep tunnel to ground level, I wouldn't know. But note that it's not just ground level the tracks have to reach, but each of those routes has to get up and over the Mystic River on separate bridges. Or should the new track stay low and go under the Mystic, then climb later?

On the Green Line, or any transport system, the stations aren't close together so that people can get a ride from one to the next. They're spaced so you don't have to walk too far to get to one. Eliminate half the stops, and some people have to walk twice as far. It has to be a compromise.