U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts > Boston
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-24-2017, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Somerville, MA
888 posts, read 713,384 times
Reputation: 1043

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Good heavens. You said it is built into the price. Did you not even read what you wrote?

The cost of the construction is irrelevant to people, the retail price is what matters. That is the PRICE that is being discussed.

(There is no lack of construction. It is everywhere. It is saturated. So, obviously the costs aren't an issue, it is irrelevant in that regard as well. )
I'm sorry for responding to your tangent about red tape/building then. When a crane company or a plumber (just a heads up, they don't usually own the building they are working on) encounters multi month long permitting processes, requiring 4 BPD detail cops at over $400/hr for 12 hours and other ridiculously idiotic red tape they charge way more money.

Fortunately there is a ton of money to keep the building and construction moving along.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-24-2017, 01:22 PM
 
32,778 posts, read 22,735,981 times
Reputation: 29810
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
I'm sorry for responding to your tangent about red tape/building then. When a crane company or a plumber (just a heads up, they don't usually own the building they are working on) encounters multi month long permitting processes, requiring 4 BPD detail cops at over $400/hr for 12 hours and other ridiculously idiotic red tape they charge way more money.

Fortunately there is a ton of money to keep the building and construction moving along.


Well no duh they'll charge more, but if they charged $300/hr instead of $400/hr, they landlord isn't going to cut the rent, or the developer isn't going to reduce the price of the condo, if the market will support their price. That is the only thing that matters, UNLESS that higher cost results in less creation of units, which we don't see.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2017, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,905 posts, read 6,835,782 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
There can't be MUCH red tape to building housing since it is going up left, right, and center. It has been for many years. Places are built that aren't built, places are torn down to build more and higher.


It's just that it doesn't seem to make sense for developers to build anything but so called "luxury" places.
Well, you'd be surprised to find a lot of things about your benevolent local governments!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2017, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,905 posts, read 6,835,782 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
I'm sorry for responding to your tangent about red tape/building then. When a crane company or a plumber (just a heads up, they don't usually own the building they are working on) encounters multi month long permitting processes, requiring 4 BPD detail cops at over $400/hr for 12 hours and other ridiculously idiotic red tape they charge way more money.

Fortunately there is a ton of money to keep the building and construction moving along.
Yep and that is only one very narrow part of the process. This type of inane pointless regulation exists in EVERY aspect of what it takes to build any kind of building. It's just crazy. I'm shocked by the amount of red tape around just running a food truck (looked into it a while back, punted on it due to extreme high costs and complicated processes that you'd probably need to hire a lawyer for, screw it). The reason why everything is luxury is because once you've spent a fortune on building this stuff, you need people with fortunes to get it back. Not advanced economics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Somerville, MA
888 posts, read 713,384 times
Reputation: 1043
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Yep and that is only one very narrow part of the process. This type of inane pointless regulation exists in EVERY aspect of what it takes to build any kind of building. It's just crazy. I'm shocked by the amount of red tape around just running a food truck (looked into it a while back, punted on it due to extreme high costs and complicated processes that you'd probably need to hire a lawyer for, screw it). The reason why everything is luxury is because once you've spent a fortune on building this stuff, you need people with fortunes to get it back. Not advanced economics.
"But there's so many food trucks, it must be easy!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2017, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,905 posts, read 6,835,782 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
"But there's so many food trucks, it must be easy!"
Lol
If you have a lot of cash to start up. It's not just a thoughtless platitude to bemoan the stagnant frustrating nature of middle class Americans. There's a lot to it. The cards really are stacked against you. Like I said in other posts though, this board tends to be quite wealthy. So not surprised most don't really consider that concept seriously.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-24-2017, 11:53 PM
 
Location: East Coast
2,778 posts, read 1,580,906 times
Reputation: 4008
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Yep and that is only one very narrow part of the process. This type of inane pointless regulation exists in EVERY aspect of what it takes to build any kind of building. It's just crazy. I'm shocked by the amount of red tape around just running a food truck (looked into it a while back, punted on it due to extreme high costs and complicated processes that you'd probably need to hire a lawyer for, screw it). The reason why everything is luxury is because once you've spent a fortune on building this stuff, you need people with fortunes to get it back. Not advanced economics.
So, any endeavor for which you'd need a lawyer is so complicated that it's not worthwhile?

I can think of lots of issues for food trucks, which aren't designed to stop people from having food trucks, but as a practical matter, would be involved in that sort of business. You're selling food to the public, it has to be safe. You're mobile, in a vehicle, which can cause damage and be damaged itself. You're selling items, and you're in a vehicle that needs to be parked, and you need to park it in an area that is safely accessible to your potential customers, and doesn't impede traffic or emergency vehicles. You have zoning issues (much as I love food trucks, I don't want one parked across the street from my house). Since other businesses that are in established locations and have paid to be in those locations, may have exclusive rights for certain activities. You might be parked on private property. You might trespass.

Plenty of people still make a go of that business, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2017, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Somerville, MA
888 posts, read 713,384 times
Reputation: 1043
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
...... Like I said in other posts though, this board tends to be quite wealthy. So not surprised most don't really consider that concept seriously.
Or they just don't have any actual experience.

The reason I brought up the crane example was because on Sunday I was unloading a crane on Surface Rd. It took 3 months to get a permit. It was near the MBTA so they wanted to be involved and get a cut, and MassDOT wanted to be involved. They were both ultimately unnecessary but held everything up trying to get something out of it. The city mandated that it had to be on a Sunday (so OT for 9 people). We couldn't get away with 2 detail cops, so we had to hire 3, but when you hire 3 you also have to hire a sergeant at a significant cost bump. All of this came out last minute of course.

There was another project I was involved with recently where the details didn't show up until the end of the job and wanted their cards filled out for the full time. Said they would shut us down but we had finished and the crane guys were breaking down already. These things aren't out of the ordinary in Boston, but they are already factored in when someone prices a job. Multiply this kind of stuff by about 8 trades and you see where it can have a huge effect.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2017, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,905 posts, read 6,835,782 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz View Post
So, any endeavor for which you'd need a lawyer is so complicated that it's not worthwhile?.
Did I say that?

Very little sympathy for people who aren't wealthy. Some of us don't have 10s of thousands of dollars sitting around to navigate idiotic bureaucracy. You've obviously never seriously looked into opening any kind of business, yet here you are judging and defending pointlessness!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-25-2017, 05:41 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,905 posts, read 6,835,782 times
Reputation: 6645
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239 View Post
Or they just don't have any actual experience.

The reason I brought up the crane example was because on Sunday I was unloading a crane on Surface Rd. It took 3 months to get a permit. It was near the MBTA so they wanted to be involved and get a cut, and MassDOT wanted to be involved. They were both ultimately unnecessary but held everything up trying to get something out of it. The city mandated that it had to be on a Sunday (so OT for 9 people). We couldn't get away with 2 detail cops, so we had to hire 3, but when you hire 3 you also have to hire a sergeant at a significant cost bump. All of this came out last minute of course.

There was another project I was involved with recently where the details didn't show up until the end of the job and wanted their cards filled out for the full time. Said they would shut us down but we had finished and the crane guys were breaking down already. These things aren't out of the ordinary in Boston, but they are already factored in when someone prices a job. Multiply this kind of stuff by about 8 trades and you see where it can have a huge effect.
Man that's stupid. Sounds like you are acquainted with the details of this stuff pretty well, yet most will say "isn't it worth it though?" Like it's a no harm no foul kind of thing. People don't understand that these extra fees and costs don't actually do anything for your business as they are completely unnecessary. They line the pockets of the others involved, as designed. For you though, its likensomeone demanding you throw money into a fire and not unlocking a door for you until it's all burned up. And we have people with zero experience on here who think you're weak willed if you don't think that's ideal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Massachusetts > Boston
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top