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Old 05-09-2017, 01:30 PM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,174,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikabike View Post
Exactly. My father immigrated to the US decades before the bussing riots. I remember him telling us that he had seen instances in which a black person boarding a Boston public transit bus was told to go to the back.

Bussing merely triggered an escalation from resentment and nonphysical harrassment to outright physical attacks. Those attacks would not have happened out of the blue. There would have had to be a long-brewing undercurrent already present before it erupted.
I knew that kind of crap was happening in the South. I had no idea Boston even had that. I figured since Boston is in the North, there was no law telling Blacks to "get to the back of the bus".

However, I had long suspected there were racial tensions in Boston long before those riots erupted.
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Old 05-09-2017, 01:33 PM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,174,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
If you have a chance, read Michael Patrick MacDonald's All Soul's. It will give you a very good perspective of the racism in Boston during the busing crisis.

IMHO, Bostonians as a whole are not racist but there is a pervasive undercurrent of racism that still exists in the city. It will take 2 or 3 generations for that to go away.
I never heard of that book. I looked it up. Drugs, crime, violence, James Bulger. It is a synopsis. I would have to actually read it.

I don't know how that undercurrent of racism lasted so long in Boston.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:07 PM
 
3,576 posts, read 1,830,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I never heard of that book. I looked it up. Drugs, crime, violence, James Bulger. It is a synopsis. I would have to actually read it.

I don't know how that undercurrent of racism lasted so long in Boston.
The MacDonald family was poor, the writer was one of 11 kids his mother had with 2 or 3 different men. They lived in the projects in Southie, used food stamps, saw siblings and friends die from drugs, suicide, or violence. One thing I took from the story was that being poor and white was better than being poor and black.

I see how that undercurrent is still here. Someone I know grew up poor and white in the projects outside of Boston living off food stamps. Today he is close to 70 and through the marriage lottery lives a pretty good life. Under the influence of a few adult beverages, he will rail against against "those people" living in the projects today relying on food stamps. No mention of his Mom who passed away about 5 years ago and was living in low income elderly housing still relying on government assistance.

Now his kids and their spouses cringe when he goes off like that but I'm sure they may harbor some little bits of prejudice deep down. I think many of us in our 40's and 50's do. But our children OTOH are the generation that for the most part considers race a non-factor. Yes they see differences and acknowledge them, but it but it doesn't matter to them.
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
3,987 posts, read 1,948,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_heights77 View Post
Ok! What was your purpose from mentioning Black Slaves owning other Black Slave Owners?! Yes, it's a historical and current human travesty, but why bring it to this post when it has nothing to do what we're discussing?
...
caucasian guilt ?
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:58 AM
 
5,292 posts, read 5,283,280 times
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Thanks for the book reference!

Quote:
Bostonians as a whole are not racist but there is a pervasive undercurrent of racism that still exists in the city.
*Exactly! And this needs to be flushed out more in a contextual light that Boston is like any other American city (good, bad, indifferent).


Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
If you have a chance, read Michael Patrick MacDonald's All Soul's. It will give you a very good perspective of the racism in Boston during the busing crisis.

IMHO, Bostonians as a whole are not racist but there is a pervasive undercurrent of racism that still exists in the city. It will take 2 or 3 generations for that to go away.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Boston
1,140 posts, read 864,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
The MacDonald family was poor, the writer was one of 11 kids his mother had with 2 or 3 different men. They lived in the projects in Southie, used food stamps, saw siblings and friends die from drugs, suicide, or violence. One thing I took from the story was that being poor and white was better than being poor and black.

I see how that undercurrent is still here. Someone I know grew up poor and white in the projects outside of Boston living off food stamps. Today he is close to 70 and through the marriage lottery lives a pretty good life. Under the influence of a few adult beverages, he will rail against against "those people" living in the projects today relying on food stamps. No mention of his Mom who passed away about 5 years ago and was living in low income elderly housing still relying on government assistance.

Now his kids and their spouses cringe when he goes off like that but I'm sure they may harbor some little bits of prejudice deep down. I think many of us in our 40's and 50's do. But our children OTOH are the generation that for the most part considers race a non-factor. Yes they see differences and acknowledge them, but it but it doesn't matter to them.
White Millennials are products of a failed lesson in colorblindness | PBS NewsHour

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d5c7c456de6a

Millennials are no less racist than Generation X - Business Insider

Data and my personal experience as a 23 year old black personal is that white millennials just didn't reallly care about racism and are as racist as their parents.

I've had white kids my age call me a n*gger I've heard two of my friends tell me the same. When I went to Senegal in 2010 age 16, I was standing at a slave shopping port and some classmates of mine told me I was lucky my ancestors were brought to America. And yes they were white city of Boston kids. Some white kids in high school called us "the blacks" in college The re was a racist banner with the word "N*gger" on it draped from the chapel at my school...

Not a factor? I think not.
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:02 AM
 
44,662 posts, read 43,174,514 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
The MacDonald family was poor, the writer was one of 11 kids his mother had with 2 or 3 different men. They lived in the projects in Southie, used food stamps, saw siblings and friends die from drugs, suicide, or violence. One thing I took from the story was that being poor and white was better than being poor and black.

I see how that undercurrent is still here. Someone I know grew up poor and white in the projects outside of Boston living off food stamps. Today he is close to 70 and through the marriage lottery lives a pretty good life. Under the influence of a few adult beverages, he will rail against against "those people" living in the projects today relying on food stamps. No mention of his Mom who passed away about 5 years ago and was living in low income elderly housing still relying on government assistance.

Now his kids and their spouses cringe when he goes off like that but I'm sure they may harbor some little bits of prejudice deep down. I think many of us in our 40's and 50's do. But our children OTOH are the generation that for the most part considers race a non-factor. Yes they see differences and acknowledge them, but it but it doesn't matter to them.
Pretty much the ghetto being described. And for some reason, bits of this reminds me of Mark Walhberg, in particular the drugs and violence. He committed hate crimes as a youth.

When you mentioned that it was better to be poor and White than to be poor and Black, I thought about my adolescent years. I grew up far away from ghetto living. I come from a middle class, 2 parent home. My parents are still married today. I had a fairly mainstream(although there were times when the grip on it felt fragile) living. I went to middle school and high school in the exurban areas outside of Atlanta. I lived in a middle class neighborhood. Not too far from where I lived were trailer parks, older areas comprised of working class and working poor areas. My high school had a sizable amount of students from lower class areas, as well as those with the "redneck" culture in them.

I was a bookish kid, short, thin. I got bullied alot. A large amount of it came from White kids. I got bullied by Black kids as well. I think about many of the White kids who bullied me. It wasn't the cheerleaders or the star athletes doing the worst stuff. Albeit, there were a few athletes who weren't so nice. It wasn't the rich kids doing the violent stuff. It was the rednecks giving me problems. It was the kids who came from the older, not as nice parts that were bullies(they were more working class than poor). It was the students who were satisfied to just lurch through high school and do little. I did go through all kinds of racism in high school. Much of the virulent, in your face kind of racism came from kids who came from working class/lower class environs. What you said made me think of my own childhood. I do think there were students who came from more lower class backgrounds who felt "better to be poor and White than to be Black". I have thought of that.

I don't know how to sum up the person you described as having hypocritical ways. Not mentioning his mother. I wonder what he would have thought if his mother was brought up. The children are the future. However, I still believe there is work that needs to be done. Maybe it comes from having grown up in the late 90s/early 2000s.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:58 PM
 
Location: Naples Island
821 posts, read 491,663 times
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In nearby Rhode Island, where I grew up and lived for nearly two decades, I think the racist sentiments towards blacks stem from the fact that there are very few, if any, middle or upper-middle class blacks living in the area.

Most of the blacks in Boston, Worcester, Providence, Fall River, New Bedford and other regional cities are poor Cape Verdean or Caribbean immigrants. The remaining blacks are mostly poor African-Americans descended from former slaves.

Consequently, people in MA and RI largely perceive blacks to be poor, lazy welfare recipients because most blacks in that area are of low socioeconomic status. Of course, this couldn't be further from the truth, but if that's all you see, it's hard to perceive otherwise, unless, of course, you've spent a considerable amount of time in cities such Atlanta, DC, Chicago, etc.

IMO, if there were a couple of concentrations of educated, high-income blacks, I honestly believe there would less racism towards blacks in that part of the world.

In Connecticut, especially around Hartford and, to a lesser extent, New Haven, things are little different. Bloomfield and Windsor are two high-income towns in the Hartford area wherein blacks constitute a significant share of the population. In fact, in Bloomfield, I think blacks are the majority racial/ethnic group (or at least they were for many years).

As far as I know, nothing of the sort exists in either Massachusetts or Rhode Island, and I think this contributes to the level of racism.

Needless to say, I've found people from Connecticut -- outside of the small rural towns, of course -- to be less racist overall. People in Connecticut also tend to have more demure, reserved dispositions than people in RI and Eastern MA, so naturally, they would be less inclined towards overt racism.

I grew up in an inner suburb of Providence, RI, and the first time I ever saw a black person behind the wheel of an automobile was in New Haven, CT area; every single black kid I went to high school with either walked or took RIPTA (public bus) to school. In that case, how could a child or young teenager who hasn't traveled much not perceive all blacks to be poor inner-city dwellers?
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Boston
1,140 posts, read 864,858 times
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I found that most of the blacks seemed VERY poor while I was in CT. I dont find Bloomfield to be much different than Randolph at all. There are more African Americans descended from slaves but CT is so segregated, more so than MA in my opinion. There is a stronger network with the Mid-Atlantic and NYC area African Americans down there. the difference with Windsor and Bloomfield from some Massachusetts suburbs is that the are immediately around Hartford rr any city in CT is super suburban in build and feel.

I find people in RI to be a bit more conservative than Ma but I find the cities are more progressive and inclusive than MA cities. Overall the living conditions for Blacks and Latinos in RI is pretty dismal lacking towns like Ansonia, Stratford, Meriden,West Haven, Bloomfield, Windsor or even Malden Medford Milton Randoph Everett Stoughton etc...

Mass seems to be the state where white people seem most likely to see "white" as the status quo, and are caught most off guard by diverse groups of people....whites in Mass. seems to underestimate the large numbers of blacks and latinos in the state until they move to a town that is less than 90% white then all of a sudden the town is "wonderfully diverse" but not 'actually diverse'...
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Old 05-12-2017, 01:02 PM
 
1,695 posts, read 3,218,075 times
Reputation: 2002
New York Times Magazine has a story this week by Mathew Desmond, the sociologist who wrote Evicted (about the private rental housing market in Milwaukee.) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/09/m...lity.html?_r=0

Desmond's Times article, about the inequity of the mortgage interest deduction and who it benefits, offers a number of Boston area families as examples in support of his argument. Whether the examples help the argument or not they were very interesting to me in light of recent arguments here about racism, inequality, segregation, etc. in Boston. Instead of stereotypical cases--inner city families on public assistance or working class whites in downbeat suburbs--he features a very well off black family in Milton, a white family trying to stay in Dorchester, a Latina single mother trying to make the rent in Braintree, and middle-class looking two-parent family renting in one of those middle income developments from the sixties in Roxbury (like Academy Homes).

Just an example of how things are more varied and diverse than a lot of people realize.
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