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Old 05-10-2017, 08:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Maybe because Narcan only serves to enable the addiction. If it is that easy to obtain it, then the chances of receiving real medical intervention are diminished.


Saving lives is now "enabling" addiction?

Good stuff.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Saving lives is now "enabling" addiction?

Good stuff.
When an OD is treated with Narcan without any sort of intervention, an addict will continue to use. It only takes a basic understanding of addiction to grasp this.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
When an OD is treated with Narcan without any sort of intervention, an addict will continue to use. It only takes a basic understanding of addiction to grasp this.


Well no freaking duh. But without that narcan, they're dead. What type of treatment are they suppose to get then? You're spinning an idiotic false dichotomy.


And I assure you, as someone that completed most of the education to be a CADC 1 counselor, I have a much better grasp of addiction issues than you. If you think if addicts DO NOT have narcan available they're more likely to seek treatment, or less likely to use, you really haven't a freaking clue about addiction. Not one.
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Well no freaking duh. But without that narcan, they're dead. What type of treatment are they suppose to get then? You're spinning an idiotic false dichotomy.


And I assure you, as someone that completed most of the education to be a CADC 1 counselor, I have a much better grasp of addiction issues than you. If you think if addicts DO NOT have narcan available they're more likely to seek treatment, or less likely to use, you really haven't a freaking clue about addiction. Not one.
No they call 911.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
No they call 911.


You're not even trying to make sense any more. People die waiting for the police. And police are not health treatment professionals. They have nothing to do with this. Maybe you're not aware that the police can't arrest people (their only way to force them into the system, which is really ineffective anyway, its a waste of resources) that have had an OD or report an OD.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
You're not even trying to make sense any more. People die waiting for the police. And police are not health treatment professionals. They have nothing to do with this. Maybe you're not aware that the police can't arrest people (their only way to force them into the system, which is really ineffective anyway, its a waste of resources) that have had an OD or report an OD.
https://www.cambridgema.gov/cpd/news...sanalyzer.aspx

What is the typical police response time in Cambridge, 2 or 3 minutes??? Police have several tools at their disposal, including PC. They have ways of convincing or coercing people to get treatment. And remember police are only the first responders, EMS will almost always respond as well. The police can usually get there quicker, which is why many communities have deployed the Narcan. Of course some will always refuse treatment no matter how hard it's pushed or are just beyond help anyway; but getting the Narcan on their own (without any sort of record or contact with the system), the ending is almost always grim.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
https://www.cambridgema.gov/cpd/news...sanalyzer.aspx

What is the typical police response time in Cambridge, 2 or 3 minutes??? Police have several tools at their disposal, including PC. They have ways of convincing or coercing people to get treatment. And remember police are only the first responders, EMS will almost always respond as well. The police can usually get there quicker, which is why many communities have deployed the Narcan. Of course some will always refuse treatment no matter how hard it's pushed or are just beyond help anyway; but getting the Narcan on their own (without any sort of record or contact with the system), the ending is almost always grim.


2-3 minutes is life vs death. You're promoting a policy that will result in more people dying. The end.


And you're really screaming that you do not understand addiction. The first step is for a person admitting they have a problem. They have to decide they want to get clean. Even then, it is incredibly hard. Very very hard. Forcing people to get treatment is a great way to spend money, but not a good way to get people clean.


And police are NOT good at convincing people to get treatment. Not at all. They rely on coercion and threats (prosecution vs treatment) which is incredibly ineffective, and even wasteful, since slots in treatment programs are very limited. If you force or coerce someone into one that doesn't really want to get clean, it is taking a spot from a person that does.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:39 AM
 
2,771 posts, read 2,221,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Maybe because Narcan only serves to enable the addiction. If it is that easy to obtain it, then the chances of receiving real medical intervention are diminished.
You can buy narcan over the counter at most pharmacies...
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:48 AM
 
4,144 posts, read 1,741,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
2-3 minutes is life vs death. You're promoting a policy that will result in more people dying. The end.


And you're really screaming that you do not understand addiction. The first step is for a person admitting they have a problem. They have to decide they want to get clean. Even then, it is incredibly hard. Very very hard. Forcing people to get treatment is a great way to spend money, but not a good way to get people clean.


And police are NOT good at convincing people to get treatment. Not at all. They rely on coercion and threats (prosecution vs treatment) which is incredibly ineffective, and even wasteful, since slots in treatment programs are very limited. If you force or coerce someone into one that doesn't really want to get clean, it is taking a spot from a person that does.
Police are not there to give hugs.

CHOOSE to do drugs. Suffer the consequences.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:50 AM
 
32,817 posts, read 22,768,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLCNYC View Post
Police are not there to give hugs.

CHOOSE to do drugs. Suffer the consequences.




Way to miss the point, and misunderstand addiction, all in one post.
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