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Old 10-13-2017, 09:56 AM
 
32,730 posts, read 22,687,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post

But!!! In most cities of the United States other than the top 10 of population and a few other faddish locations, $170k will buy you a small, reasonable condition single family house on a small lot, not a 420 sq. ft. apartment.



And I can get a three bedroom, 2 bath place an a acre or more for 100k or less in a bunch of parts of the country with no or low paying jobs, or a very limited selection of them which will hinder job mobility. So?


And have you been to the Dallas suburbs? Holy heck, I can't imagine living in that city, never mind it's suburbs. Gross.

 
Old 10-13-2017, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,864 posts, read 6,815,901 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by turf3 View Post
You have no idea what you are talking about in the context of the United States as a whole. I suppose in some weird way a 420 sq. ft. apartment for $170,000 is "reasonable" - compared to Manhattan, for example.

But!!! In most cities of the United States other than the top 10 of population and a few other faddish locations, $170k will buy you a small, reasonable condition single family house on a small lot, not a 420 sq. ft. apartment.

If you are an entry level financial-industry master-of-the-universe forced to work in one of 10 or so cities around the world, then maybe in that context $170k for a closet is "reasonable". If you are a nurse, school teacher, auto mechanic, machinist, retail sales clerk, home health care provider, purchasing agent, etc., etc., etc., (the real actual jobs, that 90+ % of actual Americans hold), it is insane to pay that for that.

This is what the vast majority of Americans see as a "decent starter home for someone", not the 420 sq. ft. cubicle you showed.

https://www.era.com/property/1316-JE...6705216/detail
LOL I had a good laugh at that decent starter nome post!!
 
Old 10-13-2017, 12:45 PM
 
3,589 posts, read 1,518,497 times
Reputation: 9876
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
And I can get a three bedroom, 2 bath place an a acre or more for 100k or less in a bunch of parts of the country with no or low paying jobs, or a very limited selection of them which will hinder job mobility. So?


And have you been to the Dallas suburbs? Holy heck, I can't imagine living in that city, never mind it's suburbs. Gross.
I grew up in Dallas and lived there for more than 40 years. How much experience with the city do you have?

I would not pick a small house in Mesquite for myself at this point in my life and career. But you used the term "starter house". A "starter house" implies to me something smaller, less nice, not in the tip top neighborhood, but still in reasonable condition and fairly safe. I showed you what you can get for a starter house in North Central Texas; a 3 bedroom 2 bath house on a small lot within 20 minutes of downtown of a city with a large selection of real middle class jobs that actual Americans might hold. You showed me an apartment about the size of a normal two car garage for about the same money with a roughly similar commute to downtown Boston. And then you have the nerve to claim that Boston housing prices are "reasonable"?

If you prefer the things that are available in Boston, great. I think it is a great city. But the truth is that you will pay an extremely high premium in housing cost to live in Boston. Its housing is not reasonably priced, it is very expensive. Only in the world of high finance whose inhabitants seem to have no connection with the lives of 99% of Americans, would the fact that housing costs less in Boston than in Manhattan, Paris, London, or Tokyo be considered evidence that it is "reasonably priced".
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
7,071 posts, read 10,817,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
LOL I had a good laugh at that decent starter nome post!!
That's a starter home. It looks a lot like the house my daughter rents in Georgia.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:32 PM
 
1,691 posts, read 3,213,438 times
Reputation: 1992
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
And I can get a three bedroom, 2 bath place an a acre or more for 100k or less in a bunch of parts of the country with no or low paying jobs, or a very limited selection of them which will hinder job mobility. So?
And have you been to the Dallas suburbs? Holy heck, I can't imagine living in that city, never mind it's suburbs. Gross.
Yes, 100K on an acre in Scranton PA or other places with poor job prospects. Dallas isn't one of those places. Still, housing is comparatively reasonable in and around Dallas but you don't get an acre; you get a nice house on a lot big enough only to accommodate the house, driveway and front yard, minimum rear yard to allow for patio, and almost no side yard. That's one way to make housing affordable-- build lots of it with great economies of scale and with minimal land costs. That's Mattapan density. Hyde Park is a garden suburb compared to that. In not one of the 100 or more suburban towns in the Boston region can a builder put up houses at scale on such small lots. That's one extreme, and it's not just Dallas-- it's quite common in large metros in west and southwest to have very high densities. People call that sprawl because it's all auto-centric and kind of repetitive, but it's more likely to meet the demand for housing. Here we have historic towns, lots of conservation land, beautiful landscapes, many old houses (some with character), but not many new houses and those that get built take up gobs of land and cost a fortune because of large lot zoning requirements.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,864 posts, read 6,815,901 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaseyB View Post
That's a starter home. It looks a lot like the house my daughter rents in Georgia.
I would never buy a studio apartment. Sounds like your daughter hasn't bought one either.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Massachusetts
7,071 posts, read 10,817,674 times
Reputation: 5606
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
I would never buy a studio apartment. Sounds like your daughter hasn't bought one either.
No! She's smarter than that.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 01:51 PM
 
113 posts, read 60,596 times
Reputation: 242
I don't understand the presumption that Boston ought to be affordable to the middle class. Boston is an exceptional city with respect to cultural amenities, education, and work opportunities. The residential valuations reflect that, and in fact, compare favorably relative to many top global cities. Boston is in a different league than the vast majority of other US cities, and attempts to find comparably affordable houses is disingenuous.

If you are a middle class citizen, then the article is clearly not for you. If you're a global-oriented, career-focused person working in financial services, then you're the target audience. You can get prime flats in Beacon Hill for less than $2MM. Good luck finding something comparable in NYC, London, or Hong Kong.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Boston
7,338 posts, read 15,309,608 times
Reputation: 8622
Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowstatus View Post
I don't understand the presumption that Boston ought to be affordable to the middle class. Boston is an exceptional city with respect to cultural amenities, education, and work opportunities. The residential valuations reflect that, and in fact, compare favorably relative to many top global cities. Boston is in a different league than the vast majority of other US cities, and attempts to find comparably affordable houses is disingenuous.

If you are a middle class citizen, then the article is clearly not for you. If you're a global-oriented, career-focused person working in financial services, then you're the target audience. You can get prime flats in Beacon Hill for less than $2MM. Good luck finding something comparable in NYC, London, or Hong Kong.
I don't know that it's so much a "presumption" as there are some controllable factors at play that price a lot of the middle class out of Boston. Boston ISN'T and never will be London, NYC, or Hong Kong. Land is more available here in Boston and more affordable. However, it's MUCH more difficult to build in the Boston area due to some old (archaic in many cases) zoning laws and fierce opposition to any sort of density. Changes in zoning laws could alleviate that will still leaving Boston with all of the superlatives you list.

Beyond that, significant investment into transportation infrastructure could make Boston more affordable to the middle class by improving access to further flung suburbs and exurbs, and making places that many currently rule out due to difficult commutes turn into viable, affordable options for living. Furthermore, improved transit infrastructure (beyond just highways) is also a boost to attracting economic growth.

There are ways to make Boston more affordable than it is while simultaneously building on what already makes it great. We just don't do it.
 
Old 10-13-2017, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
7,864 posts, read 6,815,901 times
Reputation: 6588
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox View Post
I don't know that it's so much a "presumption" as there are some controllable factors at play that price a lot of the middle class out of Boston. Boston ISN'T and never will be London, NYC, or Hong Kong. Land is more available here in Boston and more affordable. However, it's MUCH more difficult to build in the Boston area due to some old (archaic in many cases) zoning laws and fierce opposition to any sort of density. Changes in zoning laws could alleviate that will still leaving Boston with all of the superlatives you list.

Beyond that, significant investment into transportation infrastructure could make Boston more affordable to the middle class by improving access to further flung suburbs and exurbs, and making places that many currently rule out due to difficult commutes turn into viable, affordable options for living. Furthermore, improved transit infrastructure (beyond just highways) is also a boost to attracting economic growth.

There are ways to make Boston more affordable than it is while simultaneously building on what already makes it great. We just don't do it.
A lot of fat cat government connected folks profiting big time by avoiding freer housing markets. Crony socialism in this city is out of control.
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