UBS thinks Boston Real Estate is fairly priced (Wales: middle-class, sales)

[jayrandom]

I saw this article from UBS https://www.ubs.com/global/en/wealth...ndex-2017.html. They looked at global financial centers to see which markets were bubbles.

First, it's a bit surprising to see Boston even listed. Second, at least compared to the other cities on that list, Boston's market is quite tame. You can either look at Boston as a really expensive American city, or a really inexpensive global city. Only Chicago was more affordable.

[turf3]

Well, since I am a middle-class American, not an executive "citizen of the world", I really don't care whether Boston is less expensive than Tokyo, Paris, or London.


For people who actually have to work for a living and neither inherit trust funds nor will them to their descendants, Boston is extremely, unaffordably expensive.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by turf3

Well, since I am a middle-class American, not an executive "citizen of the world", I really don't care whether Boston is less expensive than Tokyo, Paris, or London.


For people who actually have to work for a living and neither inherit trust funds nor will them to their descendants, Boston is extremely, unaffordably expensive.

I think the UBS index is targeted toward people who work in the financial sector. It's affordable for them. It also suggests that Boston isn't as on the radar of the international trust fund set. Hopefully it stays that way. I have friends in the SF Bay Area and however bad it is here, it's about twice as bad there.

[brainbree]

Originally Posted by turf3

Well, since I am a middle-class American, not an executive "citizen of the world", I really don't care whether Boston is less expensive than Tokyo, Paris, or London.


For people who actually have to work for a living and neither inherit trust funds nor will them to their descendants, Boston is extremely, unaffordably expensive.

It's a myth that the Greater Boston area is unaffordably expensive. People who say that are probably the same going out every week and want to send their kids to the best schools, etc. In fact, the only barrier to home ownership on the median Boston income is just the down payment. People these days have poor savings. People honestly should have 2-3 years of savings in liquid cash. The 'ol 6 month emergency fund is too conservative and will prevent one from being able to snatch good opportunities at a moment's notice.

[missionhill]

Makes you wonder what the middle and working class people do for housing in London and Singapore and other bubble-prone markets. None of them probably have the large-lot zoning pattern that makes Boston suburbs so expensive and they have better public transportation so that people can get where they're going in less time and from shorter distances than people here. I guess getting to anything like Hong Kong cost levels forces the development and transportation issues; there'd be high-rise residential projects sprouting all over the place, especially transit nodes like Porter and Davis. Good bye to the one-story retail and 1910-era frame houses...

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Makes you wonder what the middle and working class people do for housing in London and Singapore and other bubble-prone markets. None of them probably have the large-lot zoning pattern that makes Boston suburbs so expensive and they have better public transportation so that people can get where they're going in less time and from shorter distances than people here. I guess getting to anything like Hong Kong cost levels forces the development and transportation issues; there'd be high-rise residential projects sprouting all over the place, especially transit nodes like Porter and Davis. Good bye to the one-story retail and 1910-era frame houses...

I'm not too familiar with London, but my best friend from college is from Singapore so I have a better idea what they do there (in least in the early 2000s when I visited). There is sufficient public housing in large tower blocks, but the government restricts these to families. Which means that kids just out of university/starting out generally still live at home with their parents until they get married. Some private housing is available, but it's prohibitively expensive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public...g_in_Singapore

Since pretty much everyone lives in these, they are generally nice and safe (unlike lots of public housing projects have been in the US). The ground floor is typically retail and, from what I'm told, boasts some of the best local food in the world.

I doubt something exactly like that would be workable here--Americans generally put up with a lot less control from the Government than do people in Singapore. Plus, we've got way more space per person to work with, especially if you consider the large region between 128 and 495.

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by turf3

For people who actually have to work for a living and neither inherit trust funds nor will them to their descendants, Boston is extremely, unaffordably expensive.

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M44211-25105

170K for a studio with parking!

$768 month for a 30 year, 3.8% mortgage assuming 3% down (FHA). Sure it won't accommodate a family of 4 but it is a decent starter home for someone.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Makes you wonder what the middle and working class people do for housing in London and Singapore and other bubble-prone markets. None of them probably have the large-lot zoning pattern that makes Boston suburbs so expensive and they have better public transportation so that people can get where they're going in less time and from shorter distances than people here. I guess getting to anything like Hong Kong cost levels forces the development and transportation issues; there'd be high-rise residential projects sprouting all over the place, especially transit nodes like Porter and Davis. Good bye to the one-story retail and 1910-era frame houses...

I have a good friend that has been in London with her husband for 10 years until they moved to Wales. People live far out and commute a long ways (up to a couple of hours each way), or live in tiny places, or shack up with roommates. Same as here. As a couple, they for most of the time lived with 1-2 other couples.

[Boston_Burbs]

Boston is just not a good place to be average anymore. My parents and their friends who were in the trades or government employees were able to buy raw land on the north shore and build houses. No way that his happening today. Still a great place to live if you are focused on your career but if you want to be average its hard to cut it.

[turf3]

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...2_M44211-25105

170K for a studio with parking!

$768 month for a 30 year, 3.8% mortgage assuming 3% down (FHA). Sure it won't accommodate a family of 4 but it is a decent starter home for someone.

You have no idea what you are talking about in the context of the United States as a whole. I suppose in some weird way a 420 sq. ft. apartment for $170,000 is "reasonable" - compared to Manhattan, for example.

But!!! In most cities of the United States other than the top 10 of population and a few other faddish locations, $170k will buy you a small, reasonable condition single family house on a small lot, not a 420 sq. ft. apartment.

If you are an entry level financial-industry master-of-the-universe forced to work in one of 10 or so cities around the world, then maybe in that context $170k for a closet is "reasonable". If you are a nurse, school teacher, auto mechanic, machinist, retail sales clerk, home health care provider, purchasing agent, etc., etc., etc., (the real actual jobs, that 90+ % of actual Americans hold), it is insane to pay that for that.

This is what the vast majority of Americans see as a "decent starter home for someone", not the 420 sq. ft. cubicle you showed.

https://www.era.com/property/1316-JE...6705216/detail