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Old 02-28-2018, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
1,605 posts, read 736,197 times
Reputation: 1393

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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Sure, and you can come up with a hundred where multi unit places were built. So?


Zoning exists for a reason. A good reason. Personally, I don't think it is strong enough (Belmont built 298 units on what is a filled in wetland, that's not good). If people want to live in places with no or weak zoning, well, go ahead with all the problems that causes.
I'm curious to hear why/how you like Chicago if that is the way that you feel. It's the wild west. Build wherever you can. It certainly reduces the COL, but it puts a dent in the aestethics of a majority of their suburbs. The places that do have strict zoning? Winnetka, Wilmette, Kenilworth.. They've stayed beautiful for a reason.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: New England
1,924 posts, read 1,067,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Zoning exists for a reason. A good reason. Personally, I don't think it is strong enough (Belmont built 298 units on what is a filled in wetland, that's not good). If people want to live in places with no or weak zoning, well, go ahead with all the problems that causes.
True. You do need some zoning, or you end up with Houston.

But my opinion is that there is no region wide vision to solve the housing shortage. I think the state should rebuild the commuter rail into a more rapid transit or regional rail like service, and amend 40b to encourage development around transit stations.

40b is great, it's basically made to counteract some of the complaints that I've made about wealthy suburbs with strict zoning blocking new development.

Last edited by tysmith95; 02-28-2018 at 08:43 AM..
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:14 AM
 
32,716 posts, read 22,656,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
I'm curious to hear why/how you like Chicago if that is the way that you feel. It's the wild west. Build wherever you can. It certainly reduces the COL, but it puts a dent in the aestethics of a majority of their suburbs. The places that do have strict zoning? Winnetka, Wilmette, Kenilworth.. They've stayed beautiful for a reason.


I have no interests in the suburbs there. They're crap. Much worse than Boston's. Sprawling crap. I have no idea why anyone would live in the Chicago suburbs. Gross.

The city is what is great. I lived in Wicker Park. It was awesome. Great music. Cool people. Very affordable. Great scene. Chicago is just a great city.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:34 AM
 
6,977 posts, read 6,693,614 times
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Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I have no interests in the suburbs there. They're crap. Much worse than Boston's. Sprawling crap. I have no idea why anyone would live in the Chicago suburbs. Gross.
I once visited somebody in Arlington Heights, and found it quite nice. Not quaint like a Boston suburb, but I would rather a place be a little less postcard perfect if it still retained a healthy middle class.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
1,605 posts, read 736,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
I have no interests in the suburbs there. They're crap. Much worse than Boston's. Sprawling crap. I have no idea why anyone would live in the Chicago suburbs. Gross.

The city is what is great. I lived in Wicker Park. It was awesome. Great music. Cool people. Very affordable. Great scene. Chicago is just a great city.
Got it- Very fair take.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:40 AM
 
32,716 posts, read 22,656,169 times
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
I once visited somebody in Arlington Heights, and found it quite nice. Not quaint like a Boston suburb, but I would rather a place be a little less postcard perfect if it still retained a healthy middle class.


Well, most of Boston has a healthy middle class too. I mean, depending on how you want to define middle class. If we use the middle three quintile method (exclude top 20% and lowest 20%, i.e. upper class and lower class"), than like everywhere, 60% (duh) is middle class and in the Boston metro area it is (compared to other regions) a very well educated and prosperous middle class. If you want to use other markers, that may change.

And Arlington Heights is one of the older and nicer suburbs too, still, didn't like the feel. I'll take Concord.
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Old 02-28-2018, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Chibostoncaliseattle
1,605 posts, read 736,197 times
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
I once visited somebody in Arlington Heights, and found it quite nice. Not quaint like a Boston suburb, but I would rather a place be a little less postcard perfect if it still retained a healthy middle class.
Our old stomping grounds! It's a good village. Some really nice neighborhoods, with some real walkability and plenty to do. It is, however, the perfect example of what lack of zoning can cause.. Apartment complexes and condos line the main streets, and all of the "stuff" is a bit overwhelming and creates an eyesoar. You can go from upscale tree lined neighborhoods, to an industrial park, to an abandonded parking lot, to an apartment complex, to a strip mall, all within 4 blocks of eachother.

Very different than here, though it's certainly more convenient from a day to day. Just not as aesthetically pleasing as a town of it's caliber in Greater Boston IMO. It's equivalent would be a Melrose I suppose.. Melrose has some of the same commercial activity, though it's far more isolated and contained.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:04 AM
 
6,977 posts, read 6,693,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
Well, most of Boston has a healthy middle class too. I mean, depending on how you want to define middle class. If we use the middle three quintile method (exclude top 20% and lowest 20%, i.e. upper class and lower class"), than like everywhere, 60% (duh) is middle class and in the Boston metro area it is (compared to other regions) a very well educated and prosperous middle class. If you want to use other markers, that may change.

And Arlington Heights is one of the older and nicer suburbs too, still, didn't like the feel. I'll take Concord.
But it's rapidly disappearing to the point of where it's probably the greatest threat to the long term health and sustainability of the Boston area. Also, huge swaths of Metro-West (where a lot of the jobs happen to be concentrated) are now dominated by the top 20%.


I agree that Concord is prettier than Arlington Heights. The latter seems far more functional and realist, however. Fewer snotty people, too.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:08 AM
 
6,977 posts, read 6,693,614 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwj119 View Post
Our old stomping grounds! It's a good village. Some really nice neighborhoods, with some real walkability and plenty to do. It is, however, the perfect example of what lack of zoning can cause.. Apartment complexes and condos line the main streets, and all of the "stuff" is a bit overwhelming and creates an eyesoar. You can go from upscale tree lined neighborhoods, to an industrial park, to an abandonded parking lot, to an apartment complex, to a strip mall, all within 4 blocks of eachother.

Very different than here, though it's certainly more convenient from a day to day. Just not as aesthetically pleasing as a town of it's caliber in Greater Boston IMO. It's equivalent would be a Melrose I suppose.. Melrose has some of the same commercial activity, though it's far more isolated and contained.
Again, I agree. Far more utilitarian than pleasing to the eye.


Are we saying there can't be a middle ground? In my mind the extinction of the middle class is a far greater threat to the character of Eastern Mass than the loss of any "quaintness" a little more mass development will bring.
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Old 02-28-2018, 09:11 AM
 
32,716 posts, read 22,656,169 times
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Originally Posted by massnative71 View Post
Again, I agree. Far more utilitarian than pleasing to the eye.


Are we saying there can't be a middle ground? In my mind the extinction of the middle class is a far greater threat to the character of Eastern Mass than the loss of any "quaintness" a little more mass development will bring.

Why do you think the middle class is going extinct? How are you defining the middle class?
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