Living in Boston and working in Manchester NH (apartment, commute)

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Right wingers have been against national ID cards. For it to be legitimate, it would have to be free of any charge, the people would not have to go to specific locations to get it, and they would not need any documentation that would require money, or travel, or anything that costs any money or resources (going to an office, a state, church, hospital, to get) and it would require a GIGANTIC government bureaucracy to make happen, with right wingers will never fund that. One reason they won't fund it, is because they do not want these people voting, it is the real intent behind these voter ID laws as their is no evidence of statistically significant voter fraud despite reams of investigations into it.

In complete agreement, even though I can't rep you anymore...

Back to the original statement----if you do accept a position in Manchester while living in Boston, you'll just have to get used to a very long work day, with the strong probability that you won't be able to do much of anything other than work on those days. You just won't have the time, and you might not have the energy..

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Here, let me google that for you:


https://scholar.google.com/scholar?a...hl=en&as_vis=1


There you go. Happy reading.

Just as I suspected, more "potential to" and "could". Dude, please don't waste my time with "study" after "study" unless it contains an absolute conclusion. If you want to make a claim and be taken seriously, we need to see hard data. Proven allegations, examples of actual civil rights violations, etc. Enough with the theories, and the "what appears to maybe be if...and should be looked into further". PLEASE.

Originally Posted by timberline742

Yet, you provide nothing. Two states that provide free IDs. Do you know what you need to get those IDs? You know those things cost resources, even if they are available, and often they aren't. There are reams of elderly people that have no birth certificate and they don't have the means to get one, or it is impossible to get because they are gone (the church or whatever place that housed it burned down/closed). Overwhelmingly, these are poor/minority individuals.

Yes, there is a long list of acceptable documents that suffice. Read it, you do not need a birth certificate.

Originally Posted by timberline742

And no, you did not provide a "sample list of actual convictions of voter fraud" you provided a report from a far far right whackjob "think tank" that didn't do what you say. If you look at the actual events and citations, a large number wasn't voter fraud at all. Did you READ IT? Heck the text of the citations themselves, ala: "While not a single fraudulent vote was cast" show there was no voter fraud. Where is the statistical analysis? Where is the research?

Just because you don't approve of the source, does not make it non-factual. All incidents on the list are verifiable elsewhere. You do realize how broad a category voter fraud is right? It's not just somebody walking in and providing a false name, it is MUCH bigger than that.


Once again I am all done with the studies and reviews that prove nothing and are irrelevant to the discussion. FACTS are what matters here.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by tamajane

These elderly people have never had an ID? They must get social security, Medicare, Medicaid? Everyone really should have an ID for their own protection, you should not be floating about as a Jane or John Doe. It is important to have a legal identity and proof in a civil society.

And I'm sure 99% of these people with whatever excuse for not having one, tell them there's a free pack of cigarettes waiting for them at the DMV and watch how fast they get their butts down there with the required documents.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by tamajane

These elderly people have never had an ID? They must get social security, Medicare, Medicaid? Everyone really should have an ID for their own protection, you should not be floating about as a Jane or John Doe. It is important to have a legal identity and proof in a civil society.

A population of people, especially very elderly poor women (originally) from rural areas, never had id, no. They never worked (officially) and never drove, often never had a bank account. Or if they did once, they know longer do in there elderly age. The times I've seen it (working with a group in Milwaukee) is when they moved later in life after their husbands (who did everything for them as far as government/official) to be reunited/closer to family, and no, no one has the means to get the documents needed, if they exist (lots of places from the 1920, 30s, 40s have burned down or closed with records being destroyed or lost (birth certificates at churches, or closed hospitals). Heck, there is a decent chunk of rural elderly that never had a birth certificate, they were born at home. These people are being disenfranchised (among many other groups, there is, for another example, no provision in the Constitution for someone from barred from voting because they have a felony record that they have served the sentence for, yet that is a widespread voter suppression tactic). And yes, even in these situations, while difficult, they can get access to government services like medicare.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I am shocked - SHOCKED - by the the direction this conversation has gone!

/s

And to think it all started back on page 2, when genius here just HAD to interject with his irrelevant personal views once again:

Originally Posted by timberline742

Nah, it's because it's NH, the worst state in New England.

And I suppose I took the bait...

[massnative71]

\

Originally Posted by timberline742

A population of people, especially very elderly poor women (originally) from rural areas, never had id, no. They never worked (officially) and never drove.


And they have no means to get it.

And NEVER had a SS#, NEVER filed taxes, NEVER on Medicare/Medicaid, NEVER had a lease, NEVER had a utility bill, NEVER part of an estate, etc.... YYEEPP.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by massnative71

\

And NEVER had a SS#, NEVER filed taxes, NEVER on Medicare/Medicaid, NEVER had a lease, NEVER had a utility bill, NEVER part of an estate, etc.... YYEEPP.

Who said never had a SS#? (That is not having a card)
Who said never on Medicaid?


You don't read what I write, clearly, and you're woefully out of touch with the reality of many people.


There are loads of people that have never had a name on a lease, a bank account, a bill, etc. Loads. Why would they file taxes on their own when they've never had a outside job (or one on the books)? They married young and their husbands handled all of that, if there was any of that. Do you have any idea as to the number of people that have never had a bank account, for instance? Never had credit? Never had anything in their name, just their husbands? Or they've lived an entire existence in the cash economy.

They certainly do not have the money to get these documents from Mississippi when living in Chicago, either, if they do exist, which often they don't.


This is the problem when people don't educate themselves. About 10% of Americans do not have government issued ID for numerous reasons.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.e1e25742f6bd


The Senate issued a report on the issues, especially concerning the elderly block a bit ago:
https://www.aging.senate.gov/press-r...lder-americans


NYU School of Law also issued a piece on the issue, which highlighted how voter ID really impacts women and elderly. Did it not cross your mind that women change names and may not have IDs that match their name? (That's one of many factors)
https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/...file_39242.pdf

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Who said never had a SS#? (That is not having a card)
Who said never on Medicaid?


You don't read what I write, clearly, and you're woefully out of touch with the reality of many people.


There are loads of people that have never had a name on a lease, a bank account, a bill, etc. Loads. Why would they file taxes on their own when they've never had a outside job (or one on the books)? They married young and their husbands handled all of that, if there was any of that. Do you have any idea as to the number of people that have never had a bank account, for instance? Never had credit? Never had anything in their name, just their husbands? Or they've lived an entire existence in the cash economy.

They certainly do not have the money to get these documents from Mississippi when living in Chicago, either, if they do exist, which often they don't.


This is the problem when people don't educate themselves.

Well if you have a SS#, you can request a SS card for FREE. That suffices as ID when applying for a state ID. Medicare/Medicaid, same thing.


As to these "loads" of people who have supposedly been completely off the radar throughout their life, just seems hard to believe. Especially being as poor as you say they are, they must have received some sort of "services" somewhere. Are these people you know in person?


And obtaining these documents from afar is usually not an issue, it's typically a written request to the county office and a first class stamp (and maybe a $10-$25 fee).

[timberline742]

Yes, I've known some in person. I worked with some in Milwaukee as part of a group while in grad school.

And no, you can't just simply get a SS card with a number for free. If you have a number you need another form of ID to get a card. Lots of people don't have that. To get a card without another form of ID is a long and difficult process.


And a $10-25 fee? Think about that. Let that sink in. That's $10-25. MANY MANY MANY people never have that much money to spend on something like this, they can barely eat.


And no, lots of these documents aren't available from any county office. Heck, do you not know that traditionally in much of the country birth certificates were done and kept at local churches? Again, you didn't read what I said. You didn't read what I posted, either. You seem to not to want to learn.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Yes, I've known some in person. I worked with some in Milwaukee as part of a group while in grad school.

And no, you can't just simply get a SS card with a number for free. If you have a number you need another form of ID to get a card. Lots of people don't have that. To get a card without another form of ID is a long and difficult process.


And a $10-25 fee? Think about that. Let that sink in. That's $10-25. MANY MANY MANY people never have that much money to spend on something like this, they can barely eat.


And no, lots of these documents aren't available from any county office. Heck, do you not know that traditionally in much of the country birth certificates were done and kept at local churches? Again, you didn't read what I said. You didn't read what I posted, either. You seem to not to want to learn.

I guess my question now is this. If there a significant number of people who TRULY are that destitute AND have remained THAT far off the radar and have managed to elude ALL public record and for that manner modern society for over half a century...how can it be assured that they have the legal right to vote at all? Should they be able to register in the first place?