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Old 05-04-2008, 08:39 AM
 
3,075 posts, read 5,623,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I lived in Leominster, MA for 15 years. The schools were awful compared to Cobb County, GA where I now live. No cormparison at all. We now have better buildings, better equipment and technology, and better paid teachers. Check the Internet and look at the statistics, which is what we did in advance of our move. Our schools in Cobb County and on the north side of Atlanta beat our old schools in Leominster and most MA schools in test scores and graduation rates. It's a myth that MA has best schools, unless you live in Weston or Wellesley and pay the kind of taxes they do. Sure there may be some poor counties that have bad schools in the south, but they aren't in the metro Atlanta area that comprises several counties and more than 5 million people. School systems here are county wide, and there is a much broader tax base to support them, unlike MA where every little town has its own schools and there is massive redundancy of administration and expense, and wide variance of quality depending on the affluence of the town.

As to safety, again you're comparing the City of Atlanta, and I don't live in the City of Atlanta. I live in an affluent suburb northwest of the city that is as safe as Weston or Wellesley, or any part of MA. Most parts of metro Atlanta are very safe, and the metro area has almost as many people as the entire Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

As to heat, sure GA is hotter for longer, and way more humid. I never said it wasn't. However, if you compare that MA gets heat and humidity in the summer as well (especially away from the coast), my point is that I'm more comfortable now and have central A/C, as does every house and public building. In MA, many houses like mine, and many public buildings have no A/C or inadequate A/C, and you really feel the heat and the uncomfortable nights.

In Atlanta we get a "New England summer" for 3-4 months (twice as long as New England), as we are getting right now. This whole week it was sunny and 70's (nearly 80) durning the day, mid-50s at night, with low humidity. We get that kind of weather in October, November, and April and May. Then we get 50's, 60's, and 70s in December, January, February, and March. Sure the heat sets in by June and lasts until September, but there is little to no winter. It gets down around freezing at night for a month or so...big deal. I'd much rather have that instead of the miserable cold and snowy winters, with the chilly and damp fall and spring in New England. April snow isn't unheard of in central MA, and the leaves don't come out until May. Sure summer is nice, but it leaves as quickly as it arrives.

I enjoyed my time in New England, but the leftist politics, the terrible weather 8+ months a year, and the high cost of living are not what I wanted. I'm not trying to tell anyone to leave, just explaining why I did.

I'd agree with the weather. I've been to Atlanta and it was 94 and humid, but more comfortable then when it is in the 90's and humid in MA. It actually gets more humid in MA then it does in the south.

In my opinion schools are difficult to rate because they try to make them all the same with standardized tests. Someone is the midwest probably isn't going to learn the same thing as in MA because of different surroundings and because their culture is a little different. You can teach all these kids to be ready for a test, but do they have any creative thinking or independent thought. I'm not saying MA schools are bad, because overall they are not, but I think there is more to school than scoring high on standardized tests. And those tests put wealthy towns at an advantage.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,126,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
I'd agree with the weather. I've been to Atlanta and it was 94 and humid, but more comfortable then when it is in the 90's and humid in MA. It actually gets more humid in MA then it does in the south.

In my opinion schools are difficult to rate because they try to make them all the same with standardized tests. Someone is the midwest probably isn't going to learn the same thing as in MA because of different surroundings and because their culture is a little different. You can teach all these kids to be ready for a test, but do they have any creative thinking or independent thought. I'm not saying MA schools are bad, because overall they are not, but I think there is more to school than scoring high on standardized tests. And those tests put wealthy towns at an advantage.
I'd agree for the most part, but not completely. I do want to address what I perceive as a bit of snobbishness from some New Englanders regarding the south.

Many people living in the south today, and especially in Atlanta, are transplants (or more accurately refugees ) from places like NY and Boston. The south is not what many New Englanders perceive, probably from movies or their own imagination. I think there is also a political thing going on, since most in MA are hard core liberals, and they have a hard time comprehending that there could be regions of the country where educated and affluent people DON'T agree with liberalism. Ignorance is immediately ascribed as the reason why anyone would vote Republican, so an area where the predominant political beliefs are conservative is automatically assumed to be inferior and ignorant.

I find the area I live in now to be much more sophisticated and affluent than where I lived in Central MA. Residents are highly educated and earn decent incomes. I found many small towns in MA (such as Lancaster, Lunenburg, Bolton just to name 3) were MUCH more provincial in their thinking, much more small town in how they operate, and much less sophisticated. The schools were average at best, with constant issues. In fact, Lunenburg is looking to regionalize their schools with other towns because they suffer from the common Massachusetts problem of trying to run a school system on a small town budget and small town thinking.

When people say "schools in MA are wonderful" they may be referring to specific towns like Wayland, Weston, etc., where incomes and property values are very high, but not all towns in MA by a long shot. Schools where I live now in GA are run professionally and efficiently, and have the advantage of being located in a suburban county of 750,000 people (more people than the City of Boston), with a diversified tax base and a student population of nearly 125,000 kids.
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Old 05-04-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,630 posts, read 10,429,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I'd agree for the most part, but not completely. I do want to address what I perceive as a bit of snobbishness from some New Englanders regarding the south.

Many people living in the south today, and especially in Atlanta, are transplants (or more accurately refugees ) from places like NY and Boston. The south is not what many New Englanders perceive, probably from movies or their own imagination. I think there is also a political thing going on, since most in MA are hard core liberals, and they have a hard time comprehending that there could be regions of the country where educated and affluent people DON'T agree with liberalism. Ignorance is immediately ascribed as the reason why anyone would vote Republican, so an area where the predominant political beliefs are conservative is automatically assumed to be inferior and ignorant.

I find the area I live in now to be much more sophisticated and affluent than where I lived in Central MA. Residents are highly educated and earn decent incomes. I found many small towns in MA (such as Lancaster, Lunenburg, Bolton just to name 3) were MUCH more provincial in their thinking, much more small town in how they operate, and much less sophisticated. The schools were average at best, with constant issues. In fact, Lunenburg is looking to regionalize their schools with other towns because they suffer from the common Massachusetts problem of trying to run a school system on a small town budget and small town thinking.

When people say "schools in MA are wonderful" they may be referring to specific towns like Wayland, Weston, etc., where incomes and property values are very high, but not all towns in MA by a long shot. Schools where I live now in GA are run professionally and efficiently, and have the advantage of being located in a suburban county of 750,000 people (more people than the City of Boston), with a diversified tax base and a student population of nearly 125,000 kids.
Frankly I wouldn't say schools in MA are great any moreso than I would say schools in GA are great. People tend to associate good schools in New England with the good parts of New England - that specifically being Boston.

Leominster isn't really part of Boston - it's part of Fitchburg. That's a really impoverished part of MA and not representative at all of what you could expect in Metro Boston. Leominster is Jersey city to NY or Homestead to MIA or Milwaukee is to CHI.

My son is almost nine, and he is 1st in his class in math, testing in the top 5%, and has been solicited by the Johns Hopkins search for gifted children. The interesting thing is he is doing it in a bilingual immersion class, so not only has this little BPS given him his ABC's & 123's, he's also acquired another language. A classmate of his is on her third language. And we are native English speakers. I'd say that speaks well of MA schools.

People think all of New England are Boston Brahmins in Beacon Hill, but that's not the case. Boston, Southern CT, and Providence are the only parts of New England that are wealthy. The rest is very poor just like the bayous of the deep south. In 1950 Hartford CT was the wealthiest city in the USA propelled by the insurance industry. Now Hartford is the third poorest.

Boston area schools are good just like Boston area society is good. Leominster is a very poor town so naturally they will have a poor school district.

http://www.mediamax.com/colek98/Hosted/leo.jpg (broken link)

Boston is just not cheap. There's a lot of good here, we invented public schools. It takes a lot of time and effort to adjust from a Kansas to a Boston economy. Is it worth doing? Most people would probably say no.
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,126,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian08 View Post
Leominster isn't really part of Boston - it's part of Fitchburg. That's a really impoverished part of MA and not representative at all of what you could expect in Metro Boston. Leominster is Jersey city to NY or Homestead to MIA or Milwaukee is to CHI.
You have no clue and obviously don't know the area. Leominster is no more "part of Fitchburg" than Newton is part of Waltham. And while it's no Weston, it's far from "impoverished". Jersey City....get a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian08 View Post
People think all of New England are Boston Brahmins in Beacon Hill, but that's not the case. Boston, Southern CT, and Providence are the only parts of New England that are wealthy. The rest is very poor just like the bayous of the deep south. In 1950 Hartford CT was the wealthiest city in the USA propelled by the insurance industry. Now Hartford is the third poorest.
Bayous of the deep south? Are you kidding me? I don't think you've been west of Rte 128 or south of NYC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian08 View Post
Boston area schools are good just like Boston area society is good. Leominster is a very poor town so naturally they will have a poor school district.
Leominster is not a "poor town" and Boston Schools are not "good". Boston schools are so bad that other than some special schools like Boston Latin, most people put their kids in private schools if they live within Boston. They may be adequate, but no way you can say they are "good".


BTW, funny how you picked the lowest price houses to show. I sold my average house for $300K, and there are many houses much higher than that. You're trying to make it appear like average Leominster homes are crap going for 100K. It's not Weston, but it's far from Dorchester.
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,630 posts, read 10,429,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
You have no clue and obviously don't know the area. Leominster is no more "part of Fitchburg" than Newton is part of Waltham. And while it's no Weston, it's far from "impoverished". Jersey City....get a clue.
Leominster is right next door to Fitchburg and an hour away from Boston. It is not representative of Boston area schools.

http://www.mediamax.com/colek98/Hosted/leom.jpg (broken link)


Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Leominster is not a "poor town" and Boston Schools are not "good". Boston schools are so bad that other than some special schools like Boston Latin, most people put their kids in private schools if they live within Boston. They may be adequate, but no way you can say they are "good".
Actually I said Boston area schools are good, not Boston schools. Boston city schools are the worst of the lot, some are horrible, but others are good. As I said, my son is in one and excelling. Boston area schools are very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
BTW, funny how you picked the lowest price houses to show. I sold my average house for $300K, and there are many houses much higher than that. You're trying to make it appear like average Leominster homes are crap going for 100K. It's not Weston, but it's far from Dorchester.
I'm not trying to make the homes in Leominster appear like anything but what they are. They are good houses in an inexpensive town. The reason the property value is so low is because it's so far out of town and there's nothing out there in the sticks. Kinda like Wichita Falls is to Dallas. The property has no value, which is why the homes are practically worthless. My 2 bdrm condo in Roxbury was assessed at $375! It's not the houses - the house are fine. It's the location. It's hillbillie country so yeah, the schools are a hillbillie school system.

I'm not trying to disparaging to Leominster, I just think it is wrong to let people believe Boston area schools are no good. Leominster is not Boston. I take you at your word LM schools are poor, and I believe pretty much everything West of 495 is. But I assure you, Boston area schools are very good.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:41 PM
 
3,075 posts, read 5,623,274 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
You have no clue and obviously don't know the area. Leominster is no more "part of Fitchburg" than Newton is part of Waltham. And while it's no Weston, it's far from "impoverished". Jersey City....get a clue.



Bayous of the deep south? Are you kidding me? I don't think you've been west of Rte 128 or south of NYC.




Leominster is not a "poor town" and Boston Schools are not "good". Boston schools are so bad that other than some special schools like Boston Latin, most people put their kids in private schools if they live within Boston. They may be adequate, but no way you can say they are "good".


BTW, funny how you picked the lowest price houses to show. I sold my average house for $300K, and there are many houses much higher than that. You're trying to make it appear like average Leominster homes are crap going for 100K. It's not Weston, but it's far from Dorchester.
Thank you for defending Leominster. I'm not saying it is the best place, but far from awful.
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Old 05-04-2008, 09:49 PM
 
3,075 posts, read 5,623,274 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian08 View Post
Leominster is right next door to Fitchburg and an hour away from Boston. It is not representative of Boston area schools.

http://www.mediamax.com/colek98/Hosted/leom.jpg (broken link)




Actually I said Boston area schools are good, not Boston schools. Boston city schools are the worst of the lot, some are horrible, but others are good. As I said, my son is in one and excelling. Boston area schools are very good.



I'm not trying to make the homes in Leominster appear like anything but what they are. They are good houses in an inexpensive town. The reason the property value is so low is because it's so far out of town and there's nothing out there in the sticks. Kinda like Wichita Falls is to Dallas. The property has no value, which is why the homes are practically worthless. My 2 bdrm condo in Roxbury was assessed at $375! It's not the houses - the house are fine. It's the location. It's hillbillie country so yeah, the schools are a hillbillie school system.

I'm not trying to disparaging to Leominster, I just think it is wrong to let people believe Boston area schools are no good. Leominster is not Boston. I take you at your word LM schools are poor, and I believe pretty much everything West of 495 is. But I assure you, Boston area schools are very good.
Leominster is next to Fitchburg, but fairly different even though both have a population of around 40,000. The average home in Leominster sells for $250k-$260k, so it isn't exactly cheap. The public schools are decent, not great, but not awful.

No, Leominster is not Boston, and thank god if your attitude of towns west of 128 considers them inferior. Actually one of the best school systems in all of MA is in Harvard, which is only about 5-8 miles from Leominster and west of 128, and just outside 495.

Leominster is far from hillbilly country and is far from poor. Leominster actually is one of the few cities in all of MA that have has $ saved and in overall good financial condition.

I don't mean to be offensive, but your attitude is what some outside of Boston considered snobby. It makes everyone who lives in Central and Western MA seem inferior. Don't forget that these people helped pay for the "big dig" which many will never use. Many people live in MA and don't care to live near or go to Boston. Overall your assessment of Leominster is way off.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
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While there may be parts of New England that aren't as wealthy as Boston, I have yet to see anywhere in New England that even approximates the intense poverty of parts of the deep south.
I think there is a fundamentally different appeal to a city like Atlanta (actually in the South) or Houston (in Texas) than there is to a city like Boston. Atlanta and Houston are relatively affordable, but are very spread out and overrun with sprawl. Boston is expensive and the houses are old, but it has much more history and there is much much less sprawl. Arguing which is better is silly because the answer will always depend on the person.
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Old 05-05-2008, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Dallas
4,630 posts, read 10,429,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMA View Post
I don't mean to be offensive, but your attitude is what some outside of Boston considered snobby. It makes everyone who lives in Central and Western MA seem inferior. Don't forget that these people helped pay for the "big dig" which many will never use. Many people live in MA and don't care to live near or go to Boston. Overall your assessment of Leominster is way off.
I don't want to drag this thread out cuz it's kinda negative and I am somewhat to blame for clumsily formulated posts.

Let me just get to the point.

1. It's my opin that there are plenty of good schools in the Boston area. My son is in one which is by no means the best but very good nonetheless, and my wife is a student teacher (presently in Quincy), so I have an inside track.
2. I apologize if I came off as disparaging and did not mean to sound that way. Hell, I'm a humble Roxburyian, I have no stage on which to act aloof.
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:06 PM
 
3,075 posts, read 5,623,274 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian08 View Post
I don't want to drag this thread out cuz it's kinda negative and I am somewhat to blame for clumsily formulated posts.

Let me just get to the point.

1. It's my opin that there are plenty of good schools in the Boston area. My son is in one which is by no means the best but very good nonetheless, and my wife is a student teacher (presently in Quincy), so I have an inside track.
2. I apologize if I came off as disparaging and did not mean to sound that way. Hell, I'm a humble Roxburyian, I have no stage on which to act aloof.
No problem. I just think many don't know or have differing views of Central and Western Massachusetts. The area is quite beautiful and accessable to many different areas throughout New England. I think the culture is a little different outside of 128 and 495 and that is what many people local to Boston don't understand.
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