Anyone else excited about moving back South? (Boston, Cambridge: cul-de-sac, for sale)

[TomDot]

Originally Posted by neil0311

What does this mean? That Cobb County Schools would be in the top 50% of schools in MA? That's impressive! Where do you get statistics that can approach the ability to compare school systems in different states based on test scores. The only stats that I can find, compare graduation rates and MA beats GA by almost 20 percentage points.

Prove it! Please. I'm not saying it isn't true. I'm just saying that I want proof. Graduation rates are what I go by (see above)

So the fact that Atlanta is one of the most dangerous cities to live in the nation has nothng to do with any poverty?

The Boston Metro area is 4.6 million people.

I can't argue with that. When you have runaway suburban sprawl, countywide administration does make the most sense.

We here in the Boston metro area with our 4.6 million agree.

We use fans and we are generally pretty comfortable for most of the summer.

Boston averages 42 inches of snow/winter. Really not that bad, actually can be quite enjoyable.
Spring and fall are beautiful times of year here. October is the driest month of the year. I do have to agree I wish summer lasted a little longer but I do not wish that it were hotter.

No, you weren't trying to tell anyone to leave. You simply said "You could not pay me enough to move back"

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by TomDot

No, you weren't trying to tell anyone to leave. You simply said "You could not pay me enough to move back"

Tom, I'm not going to confuse you with facts. Again, you can't compare a state average with my County's school system. I don't care what some small county in the southern part of GA has for a graduation rate. That's meaningless.

There was a list of the top 1300 high schools in the US in Newsweek magazine done about 6 months to a year ago.

America's Top Public High Schools | Newsweek Best High Schools | Newsweek.com

Several of those top schools are in Marietta, GA, Cobb County, or the metro Atlanta area, including one in the top 200 in Marietta. How many are in MA? Take a look, sort by state, and tell me what towns in MA are represented...hmmm....Weston, Wellesley, Wayland and the like. Worcester got one in....wooo hooo

And you're absolutely correct...you couldn't pay me to move back to that elitist, NIMBY, freezing cold and snowy state that would elect bozos like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Barney Frank, Tom Menino, and Deval Patrick to represent them. Enjoy your liberal paradise....and pay some taxes (or is it raise some "revenue") for me. Just keep telling yourself it's better than everywhere else. I guess the fact that MA is one of the only states that's losing population means absolutely nothing, huh?

[Cart24]

And you're absolutely correct...you couldn't pay me to move back to that elitist, NIMBY, freezing cold and snowy state that would elect bozos like Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, Barney Frank, Tom Menino, and Deval Patrick to represent them. Enjoy your liberal paradise....and pay some taxes (or is it raise some "revenue") for me. Just keep telling yourself it's better than everywhere else. I guess the fact that MA is one of the only states that's losing population means absolutely nothing, huh?

I always find it interesting that people like to classify Massachusetts as a "socialist" tax and spend state when the statistics prove otherwise.

For example state tax burdens. Using Georgia as a comparison both state tax burdens are almost identical (The Tax Foundation)

Georgia: 10.3% Overall state tax burden (Ranked 32nd)
Massachusetts: 10.6% Overall state tax burden (Ranked 28th)

So if Massachusetts is the Socialist hotbed many make it out to be, then Georgia is not too far behind.

I do admit that the business/corporate tax policies are less oppressive in Georgia than Massachusetts. Especially with the tax loophole bill sitting in Senate, Mass lawmakers need to cut the rate down to the 7.5% proposed to remain competitive. With that being said though, even with more oppressive tax laws Massachusetts economic growth outpaced the Nation last quarter and more than tripled growth in Georgia.

Georgia Economic Growth 1st qt 08: 1%
Massachusetts Economic Growth 1st qt 08: 3.2%
National Growth: 0.6%

Onto GDP per capita using Atlanta and Boston as comparisons.

Atlanta, GA: 47.8 (12th in the world)
Boston, MA: 58.0 (4th in the world)

Atlanta definitely needs to be commended for this, but is not in Boston's league quite yet.

Finally Unemployment Rates:

Georgia: 5.3%
Massachusetts: 4.4%

Yes we do have some Morons in office here, but I am more than sure that Georgia has its share as well, plus no matter what side of the isle they sit they all have the same agenda in my opinion and all politicians are incompetent for the most part.

I personally lived in the South for 10 years of my life, and my wife and I have lived in 6 different cities in 3 countries and our time in the South east was probably our least favorite. Once again though that is my opinion, but when you look at the facts Massachusetts is not what alot of people make it out to be and does not get a fair shake from the detractors.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by mattncind

Georgia: 10.3% Overall state tax burden (Ranked 32nd)
Massachusetts: 10.6% Overall state tax burden (Ranked 28th)

So if Massachusetts is the Socialist hotbed many make it out to be, then Georgia is not too far behind.

The unemployment and tax stats for my county are much lower than the state average, but your point is taken. GA is a much larger state in area and population compared to MA, and there is a much sharper contrast between urban and rural economies. The drought has taken a toll on agriculture, and the housing bust has taken a toll on builders and the related economic ripple has been felt.

Here is the info on my county if you care to see

Employment

Cobb County

The one clarifying point that needs to be made...I didn't make the claim that tax burden was the main or only problem in MA, or that it was a "socialist" state due to fiscal policy alone.

For example, in my town in MA, the schools wouldn't allow gifted students to be placed in a gifted program. The gist was always that "it would make some students feel bad" if gifted students were "singled out" for "special treatment". Political correctness is just as much a part of the culture as tax and spend. Politicians on Beacon Hill pay no attention to the voters and have unilaterally overturned the will of the people on issues such as the income tax rollback, bilingual education, and the death penalty.

[TomDot]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Tom, I'm not going to confuse you with facts. Again, you can't compare a state average with my County's school system. I don't care what some small county in the southern part of GA has for a graduation rate. That's meaningless.

There was a list of the top 1300 high schools in the US in Newsweek magazine done about 6 months to a year ago.

America's Top Public High Schools | Newsweek Best High Schools | Newsweek.com

In the top 200?

Sturgis, Hyannis
Boston Latin
Dover Sherborn
Duxbury
Weston

Three GA schools are in the top 200:

Walton
Riverwood
Chamblee Charter

Sounds like someone has an inferiority complex.

As opposed to an oppressively hot, sweat inducing state.

Never said that, never thought that. On the other things I have to agree. I am a conservative so you can imagine how I feel.

It's not losing population. This is from the census bureau: in thousands, from 1995 to 2005

Massachusetts....... 6,074 6,199 6,310
And if it were it would be because of the cost of housing.

[LeavingMA]

Where did you find MA had an unemployment rate of 4.4%. Last I saw the unemployment rate was over 5% in MA. And an article in the Boston Globe not long showed that MA lost the 2nd most amount of jobs in the last 6-8 years...only Michigan lost more.

[traveler guy]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

I'm moving to Dallas this summer and not happy about it at all. I sure won't miss the NE winter, but I will miss the downtown. Dallas ain't got none. I'll also miss the architecture and the history. Dallas ain't got none of that either. I also will miss convenience to a major city (NY). Texas ain't got no major cities. I will look forward to the friendly women and the great shopping though. But I don't look forward to the endless driving. What a waste of life being couped up in a car is!

If you want some history drive down to San Antonio which is as old as any NE city. Also If Texas didn't have any major cities then why are three of it's cities on the top ten biggest cities in the U.S(Dallas 9th, Houston 4th, San Antonio 7th, and Austin 26th). Also why is Texas the second most populated state in the country.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by traveler guy

If you want some history drive down to San Antonio which is as old as any NE city. Also If Texas didn't have any major cities then why are three of it's cities on the top ten biggest cities in the U.S(Dallas 9th, Houston 4th, San Antonio 7th, and Austin 26th). Also why is Texas the second most populated state in the country.

...because it is the second largest state in the country. The urban parts of Houston are much bigger but much less dense than the urban parts of Massachusetts. Part of the reason Texas cities rank at the top of the biggest cities list is that they have much bigger city limits, especially Houston. Houston is the 4th biggest city in terms of population, but drops to 6th for MSA (Dallas is 4th and DFW is actually bigger than greater Houston) and drops to 9th for CSA (Boston-Worcster-Providence is 5th, Dallas is 7th)
I don't think anyone who has ever been to Texas would argue that Texas cities don't have a lot of people, just that it is much more spread out and thus lacking the "urban" feel that they are after. The population density of Harris County, for instance, is 2248 people/square mile, whereas the population density of Suffolk County is 11788 people/square mile. The decidedly suburban Norfolk county is 1626 and Middlesex is 1780.

As for history, it is certainly true that Texas has been known and settled for quite a while and many cities in Texas date back nearly as far as many cities in NE. I think the difference is that Texas cities only relatively recently have become large US cities, whereas NE cities have been relatively large for early part of US history.

In 1850, 5 years after annexation, Boston is the #3 city in US, Lowell is #22, Salem is #34, Roxbury is #36, Charlestown #39, Worcester #40, New Bedford #41, Cambridge #45, and Lynn #48. No Texas city even makes an appearance on that list (and there are more MA cities 51-100, too)
http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0027/tab08.txt (broken link)

By 1890, Dallas and San Antonio have made the list, at #77 and #81, respectively. Above them in MA are Boston (#6), Worcester (#33), Lowell (#37), Fall River (#40), Cambridge (#41), Lynn (#51), Lawrence (#64), Springfield (#65), New Bedford (#72), and Somerville (#74).
http://www.census.gov/population/documentation/twps0027/tab12.txt (broken link)

So yes, Europeans found Texas at about the same time as they found MA, but they've been living in cities in MA for a lot longer, thus the claim that NE has more "history" than Texas. If you want to argue merely about human settlement, than Alaska probably has a better claim than either state. There are one or two old buildings in Texas, but after recently looking for a home in MA, there are many, many old buildings in MA.

What it comes down to is that the areas are quite different and what you think is better says more about you than about which is actually better. MA has history, density, public transportation, crazy roads, old expensive houses, restrictive zoning, and long winters. Texas has space, lots of nice roads, limited public transportation, way more affordable housing, almost no zoning, and long summers.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by TomDot

It's not losing population. This is from the census bureau: in thousands, from 1995 to 2005

Massachusetts....... 6,074 6,199 6,310
And if it were it would be because of the cost of housing.

Ok..so assuming your numbers are correct, then maybe I'm technically incorrect and MA did have a paltry and anemic net growth of 236K people in 10years. Note that's net growth, which means that number includes illegal aliens, new births, and others who have moved into MA and offset the hundreds of thousands of productive taxpayers that have fled.

What has the growth in new business been over that 10 years? How many CEOs chose MA as the place to move their business during that period? On the flip side, how many CEOs decided that MA was NOT the place for their business? Ned Johnson of Fidelity Investments would certainly be one of them who chose to leave MA and go to Merrimack, NH, Raleigh, NC, Rhode Island, and Kentucky.

In contrast, during that same time Atlanta (not the entire state, just the metro area) gained more than 2 million people, with many of those being in Cobb, Gwinnett, and north Fulton counties. Many businesses have moved HQ and regional offices to metro Atlanta and GA, which has been a large factor in the population growth.

I'm sure housing cost is one of the causes for the "slow growth" (to be technically correct) in MA, but I also know for a fact that politcs, political correctness, and the anti-business climate in MA are all contributing factors that lead people to leave the state. To be fair, some go to NH or other states close by, but I think they are the folks who typify most the folks who leave for quality of life reasons like politics and taxes. People like me are the ones who go far away for the cheaper houses and warmer weather, along with better economics and politics.

EDIT: Just saw the comment from TomDot regarding an "inferiority complex". Not at all. In fact, I feel superior for realizing a better quality of life. That tactic of taking a criticism, and instead of dealing with it directly, turing it back on the person making the criticism is a hallmark of left thinking. The implicit statement is that there is no way many in MA could be elitist, so the person making the charge must be the one with a problem. Yeah, as an example, I guess those academic types at Harvard and the Cambridge types are just normal, everyday folks...same with the Beacon Hill crowd... yeah right.

[Cart24]

Originally Posted by LeavingMA

Where did you find MA had an unemployment rate of 4.4%. Last I saw the unemployment rate was over 5% in MA. And an article in the Boston Globe not long showed that MA lost the 2nd most amount of jobs in the last 6-8 years...only Michigan lost more.

Unemployment rates - Unemployment rates by state from CNNMoney