Fort Hill - lay the truth on me (Boston, Weston: housing, condo)

[Akhenaten]

I'm buying my first condo and recently viewed some beautifully renovated brownstones in Fort Hill. Yes, technically this is Roxbury, but I need some honest opinions about this area.

To give an idea, the homes are within walking distance of the Jackson Square orange T line and there are several brownstone "flips" being done on this street alone. I've googled Fort Hill, of course, and have seen things about this area supposedly becoming a new area for those in Back Bay and/or the South End who are looking to escape the escalating prices of those neighborhoods.

I also know the city has been given a rather large (i.e. $millions) grant to renovate and restore the Jackson Square T-stop. So - who is familiar with this area? Am I under the spell of these gorgeous new homes, only to buy and later discover I am still in the midst of a bad area, or is Fort Hill REALLY on the up-and-up?

Any input is appreciated. Don't sugarcoat it.

[missionhill]

To get really technical about what's in Roxbury and what's not would surprise a lot of people. When there was a city line between Boston and Roxbury (prior to 1867) it was just south/west of Massachusetts Avenue. That could mean that the whole Fenway area, Kenmore Square, Northeastern U, Longwood Medical area, Mission/Parker Hill, and Brigham Circle, are all in Roxbury. Technically. Of course, nobody these days thinks of any of these areas as Roxbury except, perhaps, for Mission Hill. Fort Hill is definitely in Roxbury however you slice it. It's been up and coming for a long time now but, at the same time, lots of deterioration. Go figure. The deterioration was mostly in the 1980s as they were building the new orange line. Speculators bought up land, lots of houses burned--that's one reason why there's so much undeveloped land there. Even then, and certainly since, other property was being fixed up in anticipation of being the next South End, or whatever. In some sense, the next South End turned out to be in Dorchester--Jones Hill. Betty Gibson was betting on Meetinghouse Hill for awhile but I guess it didn't pan out. On the one hand, I've heard good things about Fort Hill since the '70s. On the other hand, there are no services--no stores, no anything except houses, vacant lot gardens, the Standpipe, and the old First Church. It's very different than the Fenway, where you can walk to everything.

[HowGoesIt]

Fort Hill isn't that great. There really isn't anything in the area. It's a hike to Brighams Circle and also Centre St. However, you will probably be alright if you have secured parking and don't go for late night walks.

I will tell you one thing.. Jackson Sq T stop is shady as all hell. It's basically smack in the middle of all the housing projects in JP and Roxbury. Take a walk around Jackson Sq at during the day.. and then at night.

[Akhenaten]

This, however, looks promising:

A new look for Jackson Square - The Boston Globe

If these proposed changes work out, this really could end up being a great area to live. I'm torn. Anyone out there have connections with Miss Cleo? I need some advice on the future.

[eevee]

the section of Fort Hill around Roxbury Community College is pretty nice and developed. there are a lot of artists living there (I remember doing a walking tour of their apartments/studios). I can't remember the exact street name, but it's the area right around RCC, off of Malcolm X Blvd. this area is closest to the Roxbury Crossing T stop, which is less sketchy than the Jackson Sq. T stop.

if you have to live in Fort Hill, try looking around this area (or at least a bit further away from Jackson Sq. T stop). I used to live in Egleston Sq and had to go to the Jackson Sq. stop every night after work and disliked it, always freaked me out a bit (I once worked at the Stop and Shop nearby and one of my female co-workers was assaulted at the stop. my dad made me quit that job (I was 16 at the time)). IMO, they can make that station as pretty as they want, but it will still be right next door to one of the worst projects in the city (hopefully, they will address the issues w/ this project and the parks around it)

[YoMikey617]

I ACTUALLY LIVED ON FT HILL FOR 2 YEARS UNTIL 2005...

I lived on the first hill behind Roxbury Community College at Linwood and Linwood Square. It was nice, very quiet, and in a lot of ways it felt like being in the suburbs.

The Mix of Residents:
* Lotta hippies / artists / musicians / gays / antique dealers / intellectual types / history fanatics.
* Generational African American Roxbury families who are generally upper middle class and pre-retirement age or retired. Coming from other areas of Boston, I have to say that this group of neighbors were by far more neighborly than any of my white neighbors in the South End.
* Younger professional buyers who either knew someone on Ft Hill or had a broker willing to take them over to Ft. Hill.
* TONS of former South Enders who gave it a try (when they lost their South End apts to condo conversions) and most of the former SE'ers I knew loved it. (sure they'd rather be in the South End, but for a fraction of the price they were willing to compromise)
* A dwindling number of Section-8 dwellers who are being pushed out by the renovation / condo conversions of their Section-8 buildings.

Nearby Shopping:
* Most people go to the new Stop-n-Shop at Brigham Circle.
* Brigham Circle also has most of the good take-out; Brigham Circle Chinese RULES! There's a great takeout pizza joint there as well (Pig Pizza?)
* Ft Hill tends to be an offshoot of South End, but South End is getting more and more congested... Just the same, you're 5 min's from everything in South End (then add 20 minutes to find parking and walk to your final destination).
* I used to jump over to West Roxbury if I wanted to shop in the burbs or shop at Roche Bro's, get a cheap haircut, hit the larger sized grocery stores, etc.

Good Points:
* My car was NEVER broken into on Ft Hill. It was broken into 2-3 times in the South End.
* Car ownership is EASY EASY EASY on Ft. Hill.
* Ft Hill is an easy jump onto the Orange Line and you can walk to NEU and Longwood. (I walked to Brigham & Womans for 2 years; 20 min's each way)
* We never had power outages on Ft. Hill when other areas of the city had outages.
* Boston Police Headquarters is nearby and I think this has a lot to do with the ultra low crime rate.
* It really does feel like the country with how quiet and woodsy it is. The trees are old & big, I would regularly see wildlife like hawks, salamanders, we'd hear woodpeckers in the spring. There is a stray cat problem up on Ft Hill so you'll hear late night cat fights as well.
* When the entire city is shut down from snowstorms, you can climb down the hill and jump on the Orange Line.

Bad Points:
* If you want the quintessential active urban neighborhood with things to do within the same neighborhood and people walking around, you won't like Ft Hill. Ft Hill is a bedroom community.
* If your life revolves around the South End, the drive between the South End & Ft Hill becomes very monotonous with all the lights. Columbus Ave is the safest way to go. Driving through Dudley on Washington St is a zoo I don't recommend it during the day or during the summer. (when it's 10 degrees outside, no problem!)

Good OR Bad depending on how you look at it:
* I could never get friends of mine to come over and visit (esp if they were native Bostonians). In their minds, you might as well be living in Weston.
* In the minds of native Bostonians, Roxbury will always be the ghetto. Don't expect any short term prestige points for living on Ft Hill. Consider it a "quiet triumph" and just be confident that you'll be sitting pretty in 10-20 years.

[YoMikey617]

Jackson Square is kind of shady. Or better yet, it's just flat out ghetto. It's very, VERY busy and there is a large concentration of public housing immediately around Jackson. I never really considered Jackson Square to be Fort Hill. But on the same note, I do recall seeing some good streets near Jackson Square. I would expect it to be loud over there. If not from the trains, then loud from music blasting from people's cars.

What side of Columbus Ave is this townhouse ??? I would say go for it if it's on the Roxbury Side of Columbus Ave. If not, go sit in your car at night over by the place and see what it's like. Do it at various times of the day and night.

Roxbury Crossing isn't nearly as shady, but it's also not nearly as busy. Roxbury Crossing is kind of a "dead zone" surrounded by high traffic intersections, vacant lots, industrial sites, and then the nearby mix of public housing and college students. Lotta development potential there but right now it's more or less a T stop in the middle of nothing.

[YoMikey617]

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

This, however, looks promising:

A new look for Jackson Square - The Boston Globe

If these proposed changes work out, this really could end up being a great area to live. I'm torn. Anyone out there have connections with Miss Cleo? I need some advice on the future.

I think this new development will transform Jackson Square for the better. Just having hundreds of new residents paying market will mean a higher demand of city services and safety. But know that it's not going to be an immediate South End, and you're still going to have the same old ghetto crowd at Jackson that you always had. Public Housing will always add this element.

[Akhenaten]

The place is on the Roxbury side. Jackson Sq. T stop is closer, but Roxbury Crossing is also within walking distance, just a longer walk. I did purchase the place and I'm very satisfied with this, although in the back of my mind I just keep worrying about the usual stuff one worries about when entering new neighborhoods.... the crime rate, the potential property values, etc. I've done quite a lot of research on the $250 million redevelopment plan and I just keep telling myself, "it will be much better in 5-10 years....." I've driven through the area a few times during the day and it isn't glamorous but there really is potential here. I'd feel better knowing they broke ground on the redevelopment but this hasn't happened yet.

Both my realtor and the selling agent and also my mortgage broker had positive things to say about the area, even though there are sketchy places nearby and it has that "reputation". I will very much miss the walkability of the Fenway but I am welcoming the change and I'm excited about the new place. I've learned more than half of the units in my building have been sold already, so it should be interesting.

[newtoboston]

How do you like your condo purchase and neighborhood now that you have been there for a little bit? Where approximately is your condo is? I am thinking of moving into the Fort Hill area as well.

Originally Posted by Akhenaten

The place is on the Roxbury side. Jackson Sq. T stop is closer, but Roxbury Crossing is also within walking distance, just a longer walk. I did purchase the place and I'm very satisfied with this, although in the back of my mind I just keep worrying about the usual stuff one worries about when entering new neighborhoods.... the crime rate, the potential property values, etc. I've done quite a lot of research on the $250 million redevelopment plan and I just keep telling myself, "it will be much better in 5-10 years....." I've driven through the area a few times during the day and it isn't glamorous but there really is potential here. I'd feel better knowing they broke ground on the redevelopment but this hasn't happened yet.

Both my realtor and the selling agent and also my mortgage broker had positive things to say about the area, even though there are sketchy places nearby and it has that "reputation". I will very much miss the walkability of the Fenway but I am welcoming the change and I'm excited about the new place. I've learned more than half of the units in my building have been sold already, so it should be interesting.