Working in Boston/ Toronto vs Boston

[missionhill]

While I don't like reading John TO's critique, it is very thoughtful and carefully considered. Some of his observations involve the negative flip sides of Boston qualities that are often seen as good ones, such as the autonomous town governance political structure where people get to have a say in their communities, the narrow streets and not over-developed town centers, the hub-and-spoke road and rail layout. Where he says things are dark, scattered, and lonely--well, that's a personal sense (phenomenological as he puts it) that cannot really be argued with. What's lonely for one person is comfortable for another. Things are sort of scattered--to see a good movie, for example, you might have to go to Kendall Square or to Coolidge Corner, or maybe to West Newton. When you come out of the movie, then what--Kendall and West Newton, at least, are dead after dinner time. If you want to go eat, hang out, whatever, you have to go somewhere else, and as he correctly points out, you can't easily hop from one location to another on foot (too widely separated) or by transit (because there's no immediate connection between points on different spokes of the system). Or maybe you want to go to jazz clubs: Scullers (is that it?) is in an almost completely unwalkable location (River St and Soldiers Field Rd), and Ryles (still there?) is in Inman Square. Inman Square is walkable but it's not exactly a club district, so if Ryles doesn't work out then what? How do you get to Scullers if not by car? Years ago when central city rents were lower there was more variety right in Boston: jazz clubs (Pauls Mall and the Jazz Workshop) right on Boylston near Copley, also the Cinema 733, Paris, Cheri, and Park Square movie theatres all in walking distance of each other, and Ken's at Copley where you could order decent food from a big menu until two or three in the morning. Now movies and at least jazz clubs are more scattered and I guess it's harder to find late-night eats.

I think Matt's point is a good one--is the OP's experience mostly outside route 128 or inside? The outer suburbs seem to have mostly chain stores and franchise restaurants, and not much on offer in their centers. That's not really true of areas within, say, a five-mile radius of the State House.

[DreamworksSKG]

I have lived in Boston my whole life, for almost 32 years now and never had a problem here. Sure people are aggressive in traffic but they are like that everywhere? Ever try driving on the main road in Toronto or mOntreal during rush hour?

I don't find Torontos streets to be so accomodating either. I visited toronto and found it hard to maneuver around. And people didn't help with directions.

Here , if you get lost , just ask someone. Locals know everywhere and all the good short-cuts.

To get around, I just use the back-roads, and such, to avoid the traffic tie-ups. And you just learn to not drive on the big highways between 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm 2pm-7 on Fridays.

I find Boston's transit to be fine in my opinion. I park for under a dollar, in Lechemere most evenings and take the "T" about 20 minutes into north station for the Boston Garden where I work.

Yes sometimes there's delays but generally you learn the system it works out fine.

The Orange line as an example. I have come to learn there's usually a train that leaves on the top of each hour. So I try to get to Oak Grove Station by 4:45-4:50 in case I miss the first one, there'll be one a few mins. Later.

Generally I haven't had many problems commuting into town, whether it be on the commuter train (we have 2 stops in Winchester) and many other towns have commuter rail. It is generally no more than 5 min late. max.

Orange and Green Lines, I don't have a problem with
You learn the system to get around, such as the green line train from North Station you can take the C to Kenmore or the "E" to Copley or Park St. get off and wait for a B,C, or D to Kenmore. -

And coming back you can usually take a govt. center train all the way up to Govt. Center, and wait for a lechemere for continuing service.

I have never had much problems getting around town.
Maybe you just didn't learn all the local secrets and short-cuts

As for things to do. I think there's plenty of things to do in the area.

And there's a lot of diverse neighborhoods in the city.

From Allston - Brighton to East Boston, to Southie, to South End, to Brookline, to Quincy, to the North End, to some suburban towns, there is a vast diverse culture in Boston.

You see it everywhere you go in the city.

Boston is a very walkable city in my opinion
You can walk just about anywhere in a few minutes once you learn the layout and landmarks it is very easy.
I have never had an issue walking around.

The strange layout of the city actually makes it more interesting a downtown area, than a boring grid-system like L.A. or Toronto.
I like the different winding streets, and hills and different style of each neighborhood like Beacon Hill to the North End. It makes Boston unique.

How can you say there isn't culture? How abotu Davis Square, Harvard Square, Quincy Market?
There's culture everywhere in Boston

As for a gay community. Boston has a large gay population. You may have to do some research online to find them but the area has a large gay population. Not only that but Provincetown on Cape Cod, is a short boat trip away.

I think Boston is quite welcoming to people of all types being (majority liberal progressive) we are open to most people.
The only people we are not open to are Yankees fans :-)

Anyway I disagree with you on Boston.

I like Toronto as well, but I think you're being a bit too harsh and critical of our fine city.

[DreamworksSKG]

I have to disagree, if you look around even the suburbs have a lot to do.

Like the Capitol theater in Arlington, the Somerville theater in Davis Square, quaint cafes, and restaurants, boutiques in Winchester Center, bowling alley in Woburn, mall in Burlington, there's parks and other things to do out in the suburbs if you like the outdoors, that you wont get as much in the city

I enjoy living out in the suburbs.

Winchester is a nice quiet town with easy access to the city via commuter train and highway
I can get to Logan Airport or downtown in 15-20 min + /- traffic
with interesting community activities, events throughout the year such as the Town Day, Enka Fair, and lots of volunteer organizations. You will find a lot to do int he suburbs if you just look around.

[Cart24]

I lived in Lexington because my work was out on 495 for a reasonable commute.

You are right in that if I had lived around the busy campus areas like Allston or Cambridge, some of my experiences may have been different.

I think it would have been different personally, but that can be said of living in any suburb compared to within the city limits, for example living in Ajax as opposed to downtown TO, your experience is going to be different.

But one thing that won't be affected is the city layout and its impact on what I do at night. The districts in downtown Toronto are adjacent to each other (financial center, main shopping street, bohemian Queen Street / Kensington market, Yorkville, U of T, etc.) and are connected by thoroughfares that are populated with small business storefronts. The walking distance between these areas is much shorter (if necessary, it is about a $5 taxi ride), and as a result, it is well lit and lively at night.

This is definitely a fair observation, which is why we usually look for a restaurant in the same area as the activity we have planned. Coolidge Corner for example has some really good restaurants as does Brookline Village which is walking distance from the Cinema.

Yes, the old architecture and the numerous statues and monuments give Boston more character than the International Style / tract homes of Toronto. But I prefer modernist rather historic charm for every day living.

This is where many people differ, I find Boston to be more that functional enough for me to enjoy myself and also appreciate the dedication to preserving history.

As far as the NIMBY type attitude that is prevalent in the area, I find it frustrating myself, especially considering I work as an Accountant in the planning and development department of my company. So I fight these battles quite often. With that being said though there is another extreme which I have seen in Toronto, which has resulted in a lost opportunity to create anything that even resembles an inviting waterfront and horrible Suburban Sprawl.

It is interesting to note that your social circle is dominated by other 20 / 30 something transplants.

Well it is only natural to gravitate towards people you have something in common with, so our circle is dominated by transplants such as ourselves. That was not done by design though but it worked out that way. Plus as far as the population of Boston proper is concerned more than 53% of the population are transplants.

I find it strange that you were not able to find great natural getaways in New England. The region is viewed as one of the most scenic in the nation. Southern Ontario is my opinion pales in comparison to New England, especially considering we have Vermont, Western Mass, The Cape, New Hampshire and Maine within striking distance of Boston. Also being an avid runner I am daily running either the Charles River Esplanade or the Emerald Necklace, two very impressive urban park spaces.

I also noted that you mentioned the lack of eating options in Boston in comparison to Toronto. My wife and I are "foodies" to the tenth power and I grew up in a Culinary family and have had the opportunity to eat around the globe, and I find the restaurant scene to be much more well rounded in Boston than Toronto. There are only two types of cuisine that Toronto is clearly ahead of Boston and that is Chinese (all 8 regions, excluding Taiwanese which I find better in Boston) and Greek, which are two cuisine I enjoy and get my fill whenever I am back in TO.

With that being said though you have dominant types of cuisine here. Try to find a seafood restaurant in Toronto like Neptune Oyster, Pueblo style Mexican like Angela's Cafe, Venezuelan like Orinico or Nepalese like Kathmandu Spice.

When you look at fine dining as well, there is only one kitchen in Toronto cooking at a Michelin star level which is Splendido, where as in Boston you have L'esplaier, No.9 Park, Aujourdhi and the newcomer Bina Osteria which hired the Sous Chef from 11 Madison Park in NYC. Please also find me a molecular gastronomy restaurant on the level of Clio in Toronto, Ferran Adrià recently had a 23 course tasting menu there and proclaimed it one of the most impressive meals he has had in his life, and this is coming from the father of the Molecular gastronomy movement.

Sorry for going on so long about food, but you hit my soft spot there

[john_to]

Mattncind:

You are right that Toronto's high end restaurants are rather lacking for a city that is otherwise a culinary center. Canoe and Susur are pretty creative, but many of places highly promoted in Toronto Life are so-so (or they were once good but are now downhill like Centro).

No, there is no molecular gastronomy place in Toronto (although frankly, I am a little suspicious of molecular gastronomy stuff -- even though I got Herve This' book explaining about the science behind it all).

But that is what I like typically like to eat in Toronto is in small, mom-and-pop places, going from place to place on weeknights as well as weekends:
- cheap, great, authentic Chinese food (tons to choose from -- lots more regional variations now including some great Shanghainese soup dumplings, Xinjiang lamb dishes, real authentic Sichuan food in addition to the Cantonese dim sum and dinner dishes)
- some interesting stuff like "Hakka" food which is Chinese cooking with Indian spices in Scarborough and Mississauga (not to be confused with the original Hakka food from Guandong province -- the term is applied because many of these Chinese lived in India but were of Hakka origin, so they get the term)
- Middle-Eastern stuff like Jerusalem Restaurant / Boudjadi cafe, the place on Harbord a few doors down from Splendido
- spicy Korean dishes especially in the winter when it is cold

The restaurants I like in Boston the most are:
- Neptune Oysters (just the oysters -- world class, always fresh, lots of variety)
- Rialto on Harvard Square (expensive, but they know how to really draw out flavours and textures)
- cafe in JP (forgot name) that has an excellent French onion soup
- the small basement Japanese restaurant in Coolidge Corner (forgot name) -- great quality, reasonably priced, tries its hand at Kaiseki-style type presentation
- Punjabi Darbar (?) at Inman Square -- no frills but great tasting Punjabi food
- Sage in South End -- great Italianesque place, really good at drawing out flavours in food and cocktails
- Mare in the North End -- risotto is usually excellent
- cheese shop at Wellesley (not a restaurant, but world class cheesemonger)

I find most of the places in the South End so-so or limiting (e.g., BG Oysters or the meat place next door, or Helmsley (other than its signature chicken dish), or Sel de la Tierre).

But my main objection is more on the dearth of good, affordable mom-and-pop places, and their scattered locations (you run into the traffic and access problems I am talking about). Rialto, Neptune, Sage and the like blow a hole in your wallet big time -- besides, they get boring if you go there too often.

In terms of outdoors, it is the combination of distance / acccess / crowdedness. You have to go a lot further to find somewhere for a quiet wilderness experience.

Franconia Notch / Presidential Range is about 150 miles away and while it is scenic (and breathtaking to hike up), it isn't neither much of a solitary wilderness experience. Nor is it something you can just get up in the morning and do spontaneously -- you really have to plan it out. For the same distance from Toronto, I will be in Bruce Penninsula (still consider that Southern Ontario), and a day hike on the Bruce Trail even in the summer can be done encountering far fewer people and not as logistically complicated.

I find that I have to go a lot further out from Boston to get that sort of quiet wilderness experience -- not unexpected given the higher population in the general area -- but again, that's a change from Toronto.