Is Boston racist?!?!?!? (closing, live, restaurant)

[anonymous_159]

Originally Posted by choctawmicmac

In Boston I kept getting told I must not be Canadian because "Canada doesn't have people your colour." I was told to my face I was lying about having a college degree (B.A., Environmental Sciences/Math minor, San Francisco State, 1997). I get told everywhere, but more pointedly in Boston, that I am lying about being Choctaw and Micmac Indian. Anyone claiming Boston isn't racist is a WHITE person!

So take these answers with a grain of salt. Now, true, in Boston they act like the only races are White and Black. So Hispanics pretty much get treated "like Black." If that isn't your idea of racist...then have fun there!! They have tokenism when it comes to blacks. No other race. Just blacks and whites. In spite of the fact that there are supposedly a lot of my fellow Micmacs there, I got treated "like black" just like most other places, and Boston is one of the most awful nasty racist hellholes I've ever tried to get a Math teaching job in!!

If treating you like you either don't exist or are some other race entirely no matter what you say to the contrary ("you're lying!") doesn't constitute your idea of "racism"...don't laugh. Most people I talk to, don't see it this way! I feel like instead of majoring in how to teach Math at SFSU I should have majored in "how to explain what constitutes RACISM".....!!

Thank you so much for your post. It completely validates how I feel about this region after countless negative experiences over the years. As a Latino, I definately see the difference between how I'm treated in other parts of the country and here, which was the major deciding factor in my decision to leave the area for my education. If the opportunity arose, I would leave in a heartbeat and that is my ultimate goal, considering the blatant discrimination I still experience here, particularly in employment opportunities or lack therof.

And yes, I still experience plenty of discrimination in spite of education, maybe because I don't accept the role of token. Also denying people with opposing views the opportunity to expressing their opinions by ending forums such as these is RACIST!!!

[anonymous_159]

Originally Posted by Cora72

I am white and from a bi-racial family. I lived in Newton for 25 years and Tampa, FL for 12. I can say that Boston is not rascist at all and I struggle with stupidities of people's prejudisms far more where I am now.

Yes you are white. Did you ever think that's why you don't see it????? And no, I don't believe just because you are part of a bi-racial family does not make you a non-racist.

[GoSox07]

I grew up in Southie, in the projects. I will admit that yes, racism does exist in Boston. As an Irish kid, my family would never approve of me dating someone who has a different ethnic background as myself, whether she was African-American, Hispanic, Italian, Dutch, etc.... That sort of attitude permeates throughout Southie with most people buying into it. But I doubt those kind of ideals are unique to Boston, I'm pretty sure that sort of racism occurs everyday in this country. I played on an AAU basketball team with a bunch of black kids from Roxbury (some of my closest friends) and we experienced tremendous racism at a tournament we played at in South Carolina. So I guarentee you that Boston is no more racist than any other part of the country, it is not a problem in the city.

In my opinion (which may not be very much), Boston's racial attitudes stems from the tremendous racism the Irish received when they immigrated to this country. The "No Irish Need Apply" campaign and the ideals of the Know-Nothing party still hold strong in the Irish-Americans today and actually help them to identify more with our Irish hertiage, corny as that sounds. It's the same as African-Americans still upset over slavery or the Jim Crow laws. Also, there still is discrimination against Irish-Catholics and people from Boston today in this country. Recently, a girl I was dating who lived in Pennsylvania brought me home to meet her parents, who told her I was "a no good Mic from the gutter who can't speak correctly" when they found out I was an Irish kid from Southie. So to make a long story short, there is no more racism in Boston than in the rest of this country. Some people are ignorant no matter where you are.

[MovingForward]

I agree that this is a ridiculous thread. I've lived in Boston for over 20 years. Is there racism? Of course! But far less than in other parts of the country. And, let's face it, many non-white communities in the Boston area also self-segregate. If somebody moves here from Brazil, wants to live only in a Brazilian neighborhood, doesn't want to learn English, and is suspicious of "white" people: how is that "racism" on the part of "whites"?

I'm white and a teacher, and most of my students are either bi-racial or of a race other than white. And I can tell you one thing for certain: class matters far more to them than race. They are sick and tired of being mired in the previous generation's obsession over racial identity. They are sick and tired of being told that their race is the single most important aspect of who they are as individuals. What they are MOST sick and tired of is being POOR. Yes, they understand that racism accounts, historically and in part, for the economic depression of African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans. But they also understand that their own communities have let them down. I asked one student where he was from and he replied, "The ghetto, where else?" His parents were drug/alcohol addicts, nobody gave a damn about him in his community, he was desperately trying to find a job to get himself out of there, but was unsure how to go about it. I gave him moral support, but there wasn't much else I could do. As his teacher, I can't take the place of his family or community. And I sure don't buy the argument that all black people who are drug/alcohol addicts are that way because of racism.

The constant reference to the Boston racism of the 1970s is futile. Most of the U.S. was still racist in the 1970s--which were, after all, just a few years after the civil rights era. It's now 2007. If Boston is anything, it's elitist--not racist. I'm an educated white person, but when I go into Lexington or Concord, I feel uncomfortable because the whole atmosphere of those places--to me--just reeks privilege, racial and class--and the people are just cold towards any outsider, no matter what their race is. I went into a freaking sandwich shop in Lexington once, and was treated by the two young women who owned the place as though as I was an "untouchable." It was very, very weird. Of course, probably just the kind of thing people who are not white experience a whole lot more often. My point, though, is that it had nothing to do with my race.

[unfair]

Yes Boston is very racist. I am having pain all over my legs and numbness in my foot from an accident and no doctor in Boston will help me. Truthfully I feel they think I am haitian and that is wrong to not treat everyone fair. That is their job.

[localinsight]

I am grateful to the posters who take the time to share their experiences on this topic. I was born in Dorchester in 1962, lived in Malden until my family moved to Melrose when I was six. My mother grew up in Roslindale and my father in Charlestown and South Boston.
At that time, Melrose had a true middle class. Since then, things have changed. After living in So. CA for 22 years, I was priced out of the rental market and had to find another area to live. I chose MN, but after concluding that New England was out of my economic reach - Esp. Boston and it's close suburbs.
In retrospect, I saw that my grammar school teachers, mother, and mothers of friends were responding to the horror of the desegregated busing of the 1970's. My cousins and relatives of my "role models" (white) endured daily terror going to school and could not attend if their friends would be absent because of the likelihood of racially motivated abuses. I heard about police sharp shooters atop buildings, kids having to put their heads on their laps during busrides, etc.
This experience led my teachers and moms to be tolerant towards race. Not because it was melrose, but because it showed how much racial hatred there was in their own generation. They did not want to pass this down to their children.
In high, I moved to Bedford/Manchester, NH and found out that people didn't like blacks. What a shock. More shocking personally, was to discover that people didn't like Catholics. What an eye opener. I wanted to get out of NH as soon as possible and went to college in Medford, MA. There I discovered how poor I was relative to my classmates. And my understanding of class predjudice continues to this day. I believe this is stronger than racial predjuce, and I do recognize my own bias. I visited my grandparents in South Boston while in college and kidded my grandmother about her racism. I thought she was just the older generation. One time, when I was taking the subway/buses home well after dark, she told me that if I got confused, to ask the bus driver for help. "And don't be afraid of those colored ones, some of them treat you better than your own kind".
This may offend people but it was openness. New Englanders are known for keeping with their own kind, regardless of their political/educational bent. She experienced more danger riding the subways to work, etc. than almost anyone I knew. It is true that you need to not be in the wrong place after dark in Boston. But it was more class related.
Southern California (San Bernardino/Redlands) was extremely an eye-openner!!! I found it very racist. I worked as an engineer and lived in average class neighborhoods until a while after I became disabled and moved to "getto in transition". I found both classes painfully racist, far more than Boston.
I was warned by a white friend that they (black men) like to marry white women to increase their social standing when I became close to a mutual black man. This hurt me. It is insulting to me and to him. Likewise, a neighbor of mine kicked a neighbor out of my house while he was getting my mail, etc while I was away on business. I was so angry because I knew that he did not like Mexicans but he had no right to kick a neighbor teen out of my house! There were many examples. When I moved to So. CA. most people were welcoming but I loved the way the Mexican families invited me to be a part of their family.
The racism in the poorer neighborhood was more obvious, people less educated do tend to be more verbal frequently. It was more dangerous because of drugs and guns but I don't know if racism was worse. When racial trouble erupted in my area of the apartment complex, we did separate on racial lines. This was difficult for me because the white neighbors, who now protected my physical safety, felt more open in their racial comments. At first I thought I had been thrown back in time - living a life that my relatives must have lived in Boston. Yet the truth is that the danger was the class, then the "hate" divisions of race. I don't know how to put this into words, and I appreciate this forum for providing me with a chance to air this.

One of my neighbors, Mexican generation # 2, but poor began telling me that He heard that Boston was racist. It was well known that I was from Boston and one of my neighbors from Texas genuinely didn't understand why he couldn't use the "n word" in his own house if I was present. This didn't come as a request from me, just my visible cringing when it was said. I suspected that this Mexican neighbor, who had been my friend, was being "drawn to the other side" so to speak, so I merely responded that Boston had racial problems, it was less racist than many places, only more verbal and had more heated discussions about it. I told him that I found So. CA. (settled by Southerners) to be more racist than Bostonians. I left it at that.
I left So. CA. experiencing racism, just as I entered it. I should say that I am grateful to be from Boston and grateful for 22 years in So. CA. I repeate southernCA because it is different from Northern CA, and residents of the latter want everyone to know it. I have found that Asians are more accepted than African Americans, which I always attributed to class because the Asians in the ghettos are treated like other minorities. I don't know if this is true or not.

Here in Rochester, MN (in the most conservative county in MN) I find people to be racist as well. I see more discrimination (to myself included) against people in the lower class. People in my church are accepting to me but I find Midwesterners so "nice" that it is frustrating. It is almost the opposite of Bostonians. It took me over a year to put into words that people here are closed to new-comers (less than 10 years) and ne single people. I discussed this with two apt. neighbors, both African Amer., one woman and one black. They both thought this place is boring, judgemental, and overall not open. Minnesotans describe themselves as "cautious". There is also something called "Minnesota nice". Yes, people are nice in that they help you out in a snow storm and don't tell you things they think you don't want to here. Yet, if I had been warned about some things about this county before my move, It would have factored into my decision to trust advice and move here. I prefer honest opinions.

Minnesotans (outside of St. Paul and Minneap.), it is hard to describe, are nice but they don't invite you into their close "family" as do Mexicans from CA or Bostonians. In Boston, people are more likely to invite you into their close, day-to-day circle. It may take longer, but it is deeper.
Related to the MN Nice thing, there aren't alot of racist comments here, but there is strong racism. I saw on the news that a black construction worker finally left the job one day in reponse to a NOOSE fellow workers strung up for him to see. No other worker walked off the job. We can't live without money, you don't need to tell this to a single person on Social Security disability since 1992 - it is why I had to leave CA. Yet I find it hurtful - [b]for people of every race[b] that some of his fellow workers didn't make a public show of standing on his behalf. This didn't make the newspaper for 5-6 days, I was watching for it. No one in my church had heard of it, etc. It is strange, we have some bi-racial families but why doen't news like this get around? I think people should be more concerned, but here people seem to have less of a social conciousness. They do in CA as well but seems to be generated by material and superficial interests, genuine ignorance. Here it really feels that if it isn't happening to you, and it looks bad for the community, we just don't talk about it. Even my landlord told me that construction workers were gypsies and that this didn't reflect on the community. Why not report on it in the paper for 6 days?

In summary, I still maintain that Boston was the least racist place I have lived. There are more racial problems in many neighborhoods, but then there are the people who stand up and say things like my grandmother said to me. I have been denied healthcare due to income (not the official reason) in the posh Beverly Hills and received sub-standard care in MN because I am "marginal" (i.e. I am new, don't know anyone, have no money, and can be treated less than). I am sorry for the poster on this thread who experienced the same thing in Boston being Black. It is probably true.

On the whole, the fact that people discuss this topic in Boston places it far ahead of most places. I hope that the social class discrimination can be factored in as well.

Thanks to everyone who has gone to the trouble of reading this post. Comments are welcome, esp. in terms of the historical/geographic events. I seem to be the one in my family with the "social concerns", but of course, they are all in NH - moved farther north!
In a year or so I would like to move back to the southwest for weather/health factors. I am considering Albuquerque, farmington, NM. I am concerned about acceptance of others and racial issues in Farmington, which is more affordable than Albuquerque but better weather and much less crime. In those forums they mention these topics but no where near like is discussed here. That's why I checked this forum. I never looked at this forum before, didn't know of it before my last move. I wondered if Bostonians had more to say on the topic. You do...

[howsitgoingdude3]

This is all very interesting. Is Boston racist? Well, does a horse have four legs? Is racism an accepted or "traditional" American value? Yes, but is it something that most cities, counties, and states are working on? In some cases yes and in others no.

As a minority it is interesting to hear people in the majority speak of racism as most of what they seem to experience is not as much "real racism" it seems to be more classism whereas the minorities seem to experience a healthy dose of both classism and racism.

For instance I’ve lived a number of places and Boston has been in the top three in my opinion of least races places I have lived. The most racist state I have ever experienced and lived in was Maryland.

Now perhaps there is a class issue in terms of why I have not experienced a large amount of racism in Boston. I have never lived or for that matter been to a "ghetto" or lived anywhere near the poorer areas of Boston or the poorer surrounding suburbs (Malden, Lynn, Medford etc).

I personally find the whites in the wealthier area's to be a lot more "accepting" and easier to get along with. However, I have traveled out of those areas to the poorer white areas I can smell the stench of racism and hear it as well. Knowing this I rarely if ever would travel to certain parts of the north or south shore as I know what kinds of people I’ll be dealing with and I’d prefer to stay as far away from them as possible.

On the other hand I would never go into any of the poorer minority areas as I would feel equally as out of place and not accepted and experience racism from them as well, so it sort of puts me in a catch 22.

I'm a minority and upper class, so I seem to get along fine with "snotty snobby" whites and upper class minorities and seem to be hated by blue collar, lower middle class, and poor whites and other minorities. Again, this is my experience not using this to “look down upon” those that make less etc just saying from my perspective.

For instance the first 20 or so kids that made friends with me in Boston were young, white, republican, males from affluent neighborhoods (Weston, Newton, Brookline etc.) I point this out to say, that this is stereotypically the group that would be labeled "extreme racist?" correct? Now, that's not to say I did not make friends with very "Liberal whites," but they were not the welcoming committee. In fact I found a lot of them to be very rude and subtle in their forms of racism. I point that out simply because that is the group that is stereotypically considered "open armed and welcoming to minorities."

For instance I had an upper class white liberal buddy tell me I’m "less of a minority" because I’m not from the "ghetto" and he could not fathom how my grandparents could have gone to college or how I could be a third generation minority in college. I mean I thought it was funny at first like he attended an “Ivy League” school he could not be this silly, but then I realized the subtle racism in his thinking.

I've also had a lower class white women from Dorchester ask if me if I had grown up with a "father." When I explained, that I did and both my parents raised me in a happy household her face like totally turned pale white like she had seen a ghost. I totally understood the “stereotype” she was getting at afterwards, but it was just shocking to me someone would even ask another person something like this.

I have also had a black girl from Roxbury come up to me in the street and say "I bet you don't know who Jay-Z is?" When I said yes, I do he's a rapper etc. The black girl responded "I'm surprised you knew anything about your black culture!" I admit am not from the "hood" and that does not bother me what totally bothered me about this was that she referenced some stupid a$$ rapper as "authentic black culture" I’m sure if i asked, who Booker T Washington is she probably would not know. Anyway I digress.

This is the kind of "racism" I’ve dealt with in Boston. I was raised in an educated household and have dealt with upper class whites and I’ve probably gotten used to their subtle forms of racism in terms of off shot comments, so the Boston elitist do not bother me much. Although every now and then one of them says something or ask me a stupid question that makes me do a double take. I’m totally like “Like dude, are you serious? However, the lower class whites and blacks are by far the worst and most racist of them all. Again obviously I’m making a gross generalization for point. Reality is not “All” of them are racist or ignorant.

Anyway, that's where the class thing falls in line for someone in my predicament. I would prefer and I typically in most cases only associate with upper class, blacks, whites, asians, etc as that is a comfort zone issue and I feel more accepted, so it becomes a class thing.

For me Boston is fine okay and I’m a minority. I have not struggled to find a job that suits my skill set as of yet. I have found adequate medical care and services within the city. I’m not always sure when people lament over a place being absurdly racist I think a lot of it has to do with “class” because in the end it seems that what matters most in a capitalistic environment is money. I noticed a lot of similarities between the Hispanic and poor white in terms of treatment and it strikes that it seems that if you’re a minority and are struggling and people look down upon you the automatic assumption is it as to do with my “race.” I’m not saying that “race” does not always play a factor it is just to what extent you know. In that regard I do not think Boston is any different in terms of the way it treats people of all ethnicities by their class. Having money is obviously not going to eliminate all subtle forms of racism in Boston, nor is not having money going to create millions of race problems for a person.

In closing I think Boston has its racial elements, but if you know your comfort zone and do not journey to far out of it you'll be fine. No one in Boston is going to run you down and lynch you. I'm not saying they will not make a racial, or stupid stereotypical remark to you, but if you're not in one of the more violent neighborhoods (southie, dot, roxbury etc) no one is probably going to physically assault you for being "different."

[howsitgoingdude3]

Originally Posted by manchester

I'd say I've seen more racial couples down south than up in boston and the surounding areas


electing a Gov who is black means nothing, does this mean virginia has no racial element in it too as virginia was the first state to elcet a black man as gov.
deval got elected because the gay lobby put over a million into his election and got the vote out because he promised them he's a friend to them


Great point!!! To add on, It's sad to see underpriveledged/poor dislike eachother over race, when race isn't the main issue that's threatening us (Boston)... you can definitely see a difference between the poor whites and the "just-moved-in" yuppies who don't care about them as much as they don't care about blacks and/or latinos in this city and our neighborhoods.

correct
It's not racial anymore as much it's snobbery ,the elitist attitude needs to be adressed as that IMO is the biggest problem now .

It';s alright saying you want diversity when you live in an area with all rich whites and you know a black guy from school or work you voted for the back man running, then when you see a few black guys walking in your area you cross the road and wonder why they're there.

My wife when younger worked as a nanny in milton , she always went on about how she loves diversity and wanted it.
Thing is that she never went down the road to mattapan and always sent my wife she the boss used to say she's not going there.
Where does her foreign born adopted kids go to school yes milton acadamy not the diverse public school in the town.

to be fair she does let them play with the two black kids down the street living in the over one million $ house

Okay dude, this is exactly my point! What you said made no freaking sense at all. Let me put it this way. Would this same "rich white women" send her kids to Southie to play with the poor white trash kids in that area? What difference does it make that she does not go into Mattapan and have her kids playing with the ghetto black trash there? If you're rich you send your kids to play with other rich kids or people in your same social class, that's just how it goes. How can you call her a racist? Elitist i'll agree, but racist no way!

Also side note you know nothing about Milton Academy i can tell you for a fact it is more diverse then "that little public school down the street." This is the kind of crap that pisses me off from people that obviously have no idea what they're talking about and decide to stereotype everything. Yes, a large portion of Milton Academy is rich,white, and old money, but there are also rich, foreigners, indians, blacks, asians, that send their kids there as well. In fact Milton is probably more diverse than every last Boston Public school. Obviously in your opinion a school is not truly diverse unless it is majority black or (insert other ethnic minority group here) or whatever the heck ethnic group lives in mattapan.

I'm not saying she's wrong or right to think that way, but to me that does not boarder on racism in the least. Your first points i totally agree with (in terms of the diversity police, because those bleeding hearts are totally NIMBY when it comes to it, but that goes for all races of liberals in that same social class) just the last two i thought were way off.

I know people just like that have the means to do something and they'll yell all day about how they should have extra tutors in the classrooms in Roxbury (or insert poorer under funded area) and then when you ask them if its okay to have the kids tutored mini mansion house or well funded local neighborhood library. Their response is always, "you mean I have to actually meet them I cannot just send you money. I mean for godsake i wrote you a check isn't that enough?" Yea, so i agree with you on that!

[SuperGrover]

Enough of this stuff about black people and Mattapan. The issue we need to deal with is the Dutch. We all go to work or school or whatever, thinking its about winning the game or getting paid, but the Dutch are running the whole show and people don't see it. The next time you see someone talking about windmills of the Vineyard, you just take a look at who's there. Tall redheaded illuminati pikers.

[itssomeone]

It is no different than any other city in America. People need to learn to stop segrating themselves, especially Irish and Italians. Those two are the ones who really do most of the hating in Boston and New York. They have problems. I think the Italians most especially are very prejudiced people. I don't understand why they are like that. However, if you go to Ireland or Italy you might find descent educated one there who are actually fascinated about meeting different people. The think is, the people who came here to America are garbage. It seems like the crappy people from all over the world come to this country. They have to learn. There is no such thing as race, everyone came from one man and woman many millions of years ago.