Is Boston racist?!?!?!? (Marshfield: home, rent, work)

[ChunkyMonkey]

Originally Posted by satriela

This entire thread is depressing to me. I live in Houston and it is VERY integrated and, as a black woman, I'd say, NOT very racist. The fact that Boston is still very segregated in 2007 says enough about the level of racism there.

According to the census bureau, Houston is slightly less segregated than Boston. Here's the list of the most segregated cities in terms of blacks. It is the most comprehensive source out there not based on estimates but actual data. Anything else is just an opinion or personal bias.

1. Milwaukee
2. Detroit
3. Cleveland
4. St. Louis
5. Newark
6. Cincinnati
7. Buffalo
8. New York City
9. Chicago
10. Philadelphia
11. New Orleans
11. Kansas City (tied)
13. Indianapolis
14. Baltimore
15. Miami
16. Rochester
17. Boston
17. Pittsburgh (tied)
19. Los Angeles
20. Houston

Source: Housing Patterns - Table 5-4

For your information, Houston is much more segregated when it comes to hispanics, ranking 8 in the country compared to Boston's 20th ranking. So, it looks like your opinion is not based on facts but just bias.

Source: Housing Patterns - Table 6-4

[adambos]

12 pages deep, but I thought I'd chime in on this one. I live right in the city andfeel qualified to speak on this as someone who has lived in a ton of areas. Boston is definitly segregated, without a doubt. People stick to their areas. I dont think this is bad however, as people tend to gravitate towards those similar to them. All in all, Boston is very european and international. it is very educated, and also extraordinarily liberal. People from all over the world live here.

[AQUEMINI331]

Originally Posted by GoSox07

I grew up in Southie, in the projects. I will admit that yes, racism does exist in Boston. As an Irish kid, my family would never approve of me dating someone who has a different ethnic background as myself, whether she was African-American, Hispanic, Italian, Dutch, etc.... That sort of attitude permeates throughout Southie with most people buying into it. But I doubt those kind of ideals are unique to Boston, I'm pretty sure that sort of racism occurs everyday in this country. I played on an AAU basketball team with a bunch of black kids from Roxbury (some of my closest friends) and we experienced tremendous racism at a tournament we played at in South Carolina. So I guarentee you that Boston is no more racist than any other part of the country, it is not a problem in the city.

In my opinion (which may not be very much), Boston's racial attitudes stems from the tremendous racism the Irish received when they immigrated to this country. The "No Irish Need Apply" campaign and the ideals of the Know-Nothing party still hold strong in the Irish-Americans today and actually help them to identify more with our Irish hertiage, corny as that sounds. It's the same as African-Americans still upset over slavery or the Jim Crow laws. Also, there still is discrimination against Irish-Catholics and people from Boston today in this country. Recently, a girl I was dating who lived in Pennsylvania brought me home to meet her parents, who told her I was "a no good Mic from the gutter who can't speak correctly" when they found out I was an Irish kid from Southie. So to make a long story short, there is no more racism in Boston than in the rest of this country. Some people are ignorant no matter where you are.

This seems to be the most informed and balanced post of this thread, or at least the most informed and balanced one that I bothered to read.



It's true that racism exists everywhere, and it is true that the Irish were basically the "******s" of white America when they first came here. This doesn't excuse any racist actions any Irish person may have done to anybody but it is worth noting, in my opinion.


Italians were treated the same way. Basically any european ethnic group other than Anglo-Saxons (the dominant ethnic group in the U.S. from the day the Declaration of Independence was signed) has been discriminated against in this way until they were allowed to merge into the mainstream. Then non-European groups began coming to this country in large waves (i.e. Hispanic, Asians, and Jews) and they're now becoming assimilated into the mainstream (well actually Jews are for the most part, mainstream and considered "white"). The only ethnic group who has never been allowed to even be considered acceptable enough to enter this mainstream is African Americans. Even Native Americans who married into white familes and had kids eventually blended into society enough to the point that their grandchildren were considered "white". But not blacks.

[mapl]

On Mandantory School Busing here in Boston:

Unlike* many, if not most of the Southern areas, Boston's busing program was confined to the city limits, which also helped contribute to why Boston became so explosive during the mid to late 1970's when busing was implemented there.* A Metropolitan solution was considered in a number of areas including Boston, but it got scrapped. People in Boston's all-white suburbs would not accept it, and Boston's black* community, already small, fearing that the limited amount of influence and power that they had, would be "diluted in the sea of suburbia”, also rejected it.*

However, the Boston area also had a METCO program, in which black students from Boston were bused in to a number of the outerlying bedroom communities, including my old hometown, which had METCO later.* There was a difference here, however:* The METCO program was a* voluntary program aimed at inner city students from Roxbury, Mattapan and North Dorchester who wished to participate in it, and a great many METCO kids benefied by getting a better
education at better schools in wealthier communities.

Unfortunately, however, with the mandantory school busing program in Boston itself, that frequently failed to happen.* Busing in Boston was done in such a way that it furthur pitted poor and working-class whites and blacks alike against each other.* The most disastrous part of the busing plan in the city of Boston itself was the pairing off of poor white South Boston with poor black Roxbury, particularly the high schools in those two neighborhoods.
*
Black students were taken out of horrible, physically run-down, educationally inferior schools in Roxbury, Mattapan and North Dorchester and bused across town to schools in* white neighborhoods, particularly in poor white Southie, Charlestown and East Boston, that were frequently* little to no better, either educationally or physically,* than the schools that they'd been taken out of.*
*
Prominant people, such as Prof. Louis Jaffe of the Harvard University Law School, who was to hold hearings on the plan,* and Edward McCormack, a Southie native who was an attorney with a strong civil rights record that won him respect in Boston's black community, as well as a lifetime NAACP membership, affectively warned that the part of the plan that entailed the pairing off of Roxbury and Southie was a "red flag"; that it should be restudied and looked over, and that implementation of the plan should be deferred for another year or so in order to study and consider some alternatives.* Many of Boston's blacks themselves, acutely aware of the extremely intense hostility that lay in store for their kids at the end of the bus ride from Roxbury into poor white Southie, weren't happy with the plan either, greatly fearing, with ample reason, for their children's safety.

Unfortunately, however, the warnings issued by Prof. Jaffee, as well as by Edward McCormack were ignored. Federal District Judge W. Arthur Garrity and his experts, who had crafted the busing plan, disregarded the warnings, ordering the plan, including the Southie-Roxbury pairing, into effect for the following fall.* As some people had predicted, it erupted into much chaos and violence, especially on the part of white Southie (that rivaled that in many, if not most of the Southern areas, setting the tone for and acting as sort of a "trigger" for* the rest of the city, which, little by little, also exploded into violence.
*
Moreover, the black students being bused into the schools in Boston's white neighborhoods, particularly South Boston, Charlestown and East Boston, were regularly met with jeers, catcalls, gibes, racial epitats, and rock-and-bottle throwing by vicious mobs outside the schools, as well as physical attacks by whites when they were inside the schools in those areas, particularly the high schools.
*
Many black students were afraid to enter the schools in white South Boston and Charlestown, especially the high schools, and, in some cases,* refused to do so altogether, precisely because of the verbal and physical abuse that they were routinely* subjected to.* It's also true, however, that the black students being bused into these particular areas were by no means the only ones subjected to abuse.
*
Ordinary residents of Southie, Charlestown and East Boston, for example, who attempted to comply with the busing order in any way,* whether it was by participating in a council to help ensure the safety of black children in those particular schools, or by joining a parents'* racial-ethnic council, for example, were subject to abuse, as were members of the predominantly white and Irish Catholic Tactical Patrol Force, many of who either hailed from or had kinship in those neighborhoods, and* who'd been assigned to keep and maintain order in Boston's neighborhoods during busing.

Charlestown High School’s headmaster, Frank Power, white and Irish-Catholic (though not from Charlestown), who had been the school’s headmaster since 1968,* was also subjected to much abuse at the hands of many Townie parents and students alike,* for complying or attempting to comply with the busing order, especially by meeting* and talking with the black students who were bused in, were under constant verbal and physical attack, and who had banded together with other non-whites at Charlestown High School to form a Minority Students Council for self-protection.
*
*Once a very popular figure and a kind of celebrity in the Town and at Charlestown High School, Frank Power now had become "persona non grata" with many Townie parents and Townie students alike. Regularly vilified, screamed at, insulted and cussed out, Frank Power also received death threats via telephone,* and was even spat upon by many Townies. * All* of this abuse eventually took its toll on Frank Power, who was ultimately forced to resign his position as Charlestown High School’s headmaster during mid-year of that year, due to extremely poor health, which was invariably made worse by the constant, extreme stress that was put on him during that school year.

All this is not to say, however,* that busing created the problems and the racial/ethnic tensions, or that the Boston Public School system was educationally sound prior to busing. In fact, Boston’s Public School system had been a school system in decline for many decades before busing, since the 1920’s, and there’d been much racial and ethnic bigotry in Boston prior to busing. Before busing, even Boston’s white ethnic neighborhoods had been divided from each other.

Predominantly Irish Charlestown and the predominantly Italian North End, directly across the bridge from one another, for example, had also been long-time rivals. Many North Enders who’d opted to go to Charlestown High School during the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, were regularly attacked physically and had ethnic slurs directed at them by many of the Townies, who clearly did not want them there. The advent of mandated school busing in Boston during the mid-to late 1970’s, however, united the white neighborhoods even more completely against non-white, especially the black neighborhoods.

Also, Boston had already been traumatized during the 1950’s and 1960’s by urban renewal policies gone awry, which had resulted in the displacement of thousands of people, as well as by airport and highway expansion, which encroached on and/or sliced through many of Boston’s neighborhoods.

The complete destruction of Boston’s old West End neighborhood, which was bulldozed out of existence, only to be replaced later by not-so-attractive high-rises, as well as MLK’s assassination, and the B-BURG (Boston Banks Urban Renewal Group) program, which created a ghetto out of the predominantly Jewish neighborhoods in Boston, also contributed to and provided the backdrop for much of the racial tensions and hostility that followed.

However, for at least a decade prior to busing, racial tensions and hostilities in Boston had been on the rise, many if not most of Boston’s public schools generally had been quite poor in educational quality and physical shape to begin with, the student school dropout rate was already quite high, and flight from the city and/or its public schools was already taking place. Many of Boston’s remaining white workingclass people, seeing all this, became alarmed.

There was yet another extremely important factor that was at play: For many years prior to busing, the all-white Boston School committee, steeped in politics, patronage and no small amount of opportunism, rode on the coattails of white workingclass fears, frustrations and resentments along the lines of race and class, played to their worst instincts, and affectively coached and bent much of Boston’s white workingclass population into a stance of belligerence and resistance.

Indeed, the all-white Boston School Committee back then fought every effort to integrate Boston’s public schools tooth and nail. They deliberately violated the Racial Imbalance Law in the most egregious, mean-spirited fashion, helping to keep de facto segregation of Boston’s public schools intact. While it’s true that Boston’s neighborhoods were/are residentially segregated, hence resulting in segregated schools, the Boston School Committee persistently refused to make any kind of effort to help relieve the overcrowding and racial imbalance of the schools.

As a result of so many years of intransigence on the part of the all-white Boston School Committee, Boston’s black community, having legitimate grievances against the Boston School Committee, ultimately felt compelled to take their case to the Federal District Court. Much tougher, more costly, and unwanted measures were resorted to than would’ve otherwise been taken, which in turn, helped send age-old, pre-existing racial tensions and hostilities in Boston soaring way, way up above the boiling point, leaving a city and its people greatly scarred (psychologically) by the experience.

All of the above having been said, I firmly believe that many years of malfeasance and intransigence on the part of the all-white Boston School Committee back then, both prior to and during busing, the advise for Boston to go the school desegregation process alone, and the condemnation of Boston’s white workingclass people as racists per se by many people residing in many of Boston’s outerlying all-white suburbs, all helped to set the state for much of the racial/ethnic tensions and strife that went on in the city of Boston at that time.

While it’s true that white racism was a significant driving force in the opposition and active resistance to mandated school busing in Boston, it was by no means the only factor at play. The issues were socioeconomic in origin, also. Class, as well as race, played a substantial role in Boston’s busing crisis. Many of Boston’s whites, particularly those residing in Southie, Charlestown and East Boston, were as poor as the blacks in Roxbury, North Dorchester and Mattapan. They, too had been hurt by badly-thought -out urban renewal programs, and invasive policies such as airport and highway expansion.

Many of Boston’s workingclass whites had also witnessed and/or been displaced from Boston neighborhoods such as the West End and other neighborhoods during urban renwal policies gone awry, and, fearing displacement or furthur displacement, resisted, with the encouragement of the all-white Boston School Committee, who they continued to elect into office year after year.

As guilty as the Boston School Committee back then was of many years of malfeasance, however, they were by no means alone in perpetuating de facto segregation in Boston. In May 1968, roughly a month after MLK’s assassination, and roughly six years prior to busing, then-Mayor Kevin Hagan White announced a program that was ostensibly designed to help first-time low-income black homebuyers to break out of the ghetto, assume the responsibility of homeownership for the first time, and to obtain FHA(Federal Housing Adm.) insured loans. What followed in B-BURG’S wake, however, was nothing less than a disaster.

The B-BURG (Boston Banks Urban Renewal Group) program was a consortium of some 20 Boston-area banks that operated in partnership with the Real Estate Agents. Boston’s Jewish neighborhoods in Mattapan, Roxbury and North Dorchester were chosen for the B-BURG experiment, citing resistance from the other white ethnic neighborhoods nearby, and effectively “redlined”. B-BURG’s black homebuyers were restricted to the Jewish neighborhoods, and in many cases, were denied loans when they found decent housing that they liked, which were frequently only afew blocks outside the “redlined” B-BURG areas.

Pre-existing white flight from the “redlined” areas increased, fueled, at least in part by racist campaigning on the part of the banks and real estate agents affiliated with the B-BURG program. Real Estate Agents frequently warned jewish homeowners to “sell and get out” before their property values declined. With the advent of threats, arsons, firebombings and break-ins, most of Boston’s remaining Jewish population fled the “redlined” neighborhoods, and a crime-ridden, overcrowded ghetto was created that still exists today. Contrary to helping people break out of the ghetto, B-BURG had only enlarged, expanded, extended and reinforced the ghetto.

I believe that, had the B-BURG program been administered differently and had allowed black homebuyers access to housing throughout the city, and with a different kind of leadership on the part of the Boston School Committee back then, Boston’s neighborhoods and schools alike would’ve been much more integrated racially, ethnically and socioeconomically, and better school would’ve come about for both non-white and white Boston Public School students alike. Boston Parents and students alike would’ve had much more choice as to where students could/would be sent to school, and Boston’s public school system would be in much better shape today.

There would’ve also been a much, much better chance, I believe, to neutralize (the late) Boston School Committeewoman Louise Day Hicks, derail her crusade, and thereby eliminate the need for a far-reaching, more costly cross-city mandated busing program, which had clearly increased racial/ethnic/class polarization in Boston, making many people more angry and fearful of each other. Instead, things went on as they were. Mayor Kevin H. White, both unable and unwilling to lead and keep the city under control during Boston’s school crisis, ultimately decided not to run for
re-election after four terms in office.

Although there has always been much bigotry in Boston’s white neighborhoods, I often find myself questioning (A) Whether or not the
the racists were/are necessarily in the majority, and (B) whether other solutions could’ve been implemented that didn’t help produce such bitter, long, drawn-out conflict between Boston’s poor and working-class whites and blacks.



Here are my answers to the question: (A). I believe that perhaps the bigots were not necessarily in the majority, but, yet, the Boston School Committee back then, especially under the auspices of political “tools” such as (the late) Louise Day Hicks, and John Kerrigan (who was no relation to ice-skater Nancy Kerrigan, btw), and, by extension, certain Boston City Council members, who, by their racially divisive policies, created the kind of atmosphere that provided a haven for the racists and extremists among Boston’s white workingclass population, allowing them to do their dirty work and to help set the stage for the racial strife that went on in the city at that time.

This kind of racial strife, made possible by the Boston School Committee and certain city council members, resulted in many horrific racial incidents in Boston’s neighborhoods, as well as inside and around many of the schools, especially the high schools, and also led up to such incidents as the horrific abuse of and forced resignation of Frank Power, who was then Charlestown High School’s headmaster, and the well-publicized but more horrific attack on African-American attorney Theodore Landsmark, who was on his way to a meeting at Boston City Hall, by white toughs. One of Ted Landsmark’s attackers swung an American flag at him, while two other white toughs assaulted, punched and kicked him, leaving Theodore Landsmark seriously injured and needing to be rushed to the hospital.

All this being said, I believe that extremists and bigots do not have to be in the majority to present a problem. The troublemakers, however, while not necessarily in the majority, are often the most upfront and more vocal, therefore getting the most publicity and clout, and are frequently assisted and coached by leadership that encourages them. Therefore, I believe, that with a different kind of leadership, different solutions to the problems would’ve been possible, and the bigots and extremists could’ve/would’ve been isolated and deprived of the liberty and license to do their dirty work of whipping other people up much earlier. A volatile situation would’ve been brought under control much, much sooner, imo, thus preventing or at least minimizing much of what happened at that time.

The answer to Part B of my question is that I have always believed that the problems that mandated school busing set out to correct, particularly in Boston and the North/Northeast generally (but in many other places as well), are far too deeply-rooted and far too complex to be solved by a measure such as mandated school busing. Again, had B-BURG operated in another way and allowed the housing in all of Boston’s neighborhoods to be racially/ethnically integrated, and, had the Boston School Committee back then been more flexible and complied with the Racial Imbalance Law, rather than resisting and engaging in all their political posturing, things would’ve been very, very different.
.
Although there would’ve undoutedly been a certain amount of conflict and resistance no matter what kind of solutions had been imposed, things would’ve eventually calmed down and people would’ve learned to live with and accept each other as human beings.

I also believe that a certain amount of conflict can be useful in that people could learn from each other and, hopefully, arrive at some sort of understanding which would pave the way for more workable solutions to problems. If, however, the conflict is so deep, drawn-out and bitter that it leaves extremely deep (psychological) scars on people, then it becomes counterproductive, leaving little or no possibility for people to work together and solve problems. Physical assaults on people, verbal invective and throwing rocks and bottles, etc. at busloads of schoolchildren were and are certainly not conducive to problem-solving, either. Unfortunately, however, the all-white Boston School Committee back then, through many years of racially divisive school policies, recalcitrance and intransigence, had definitely helped to produce this latter form of conflict.

Perhaps another possible solution would’ve been for Boston’s NAACP and the black community at large to work with prominent white liberal leaders to put pressure on Louise Day Hicks until she either complied with the Racial Imbalance Law or stepped down from her position on the Boston School Committee.

All of the above being said, however, I believe that Boston has been gradually but surely moving away from the old days and taking a newer course.

[mapl]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I know what you are saying. At the same time, I will say this. There is racism in Bensonhurst, as well as South Boston. I know about Yusef Hawkins getting baseball batted to death. I know about Al Sharpton being stabbed. I also know about the Boston busing riots of the 1970's. While this isn't representative of all Bostonians, Boston's history doesn't sound very encouraging.

You and GoSox07 have made some valid points, pirate_lafitte. I'm very much aware of what went on in Bensonhurst, as well as the busing riots in Southie, and I also know about the more recent events down in Jena, Louisiana, which were really disgusting, in their own way, and a similar incident at Columbia University in NY, where an African-American professor found a noose hung on her office door.

Unfortunately, racism really is still very much alive here in the United States, and it's not only between whites and non-whites, but between the various non-white groups as well. It's been particularly virulent also, since 9/11, with people of Muslim and/or Arabic descent being the new victims of racism, from people of all races. Back in the late 1960's, a prominent African-American leader (whose name I've since forgotten) predicted that if racism were not kept in check, it would become all-consuming. He was, unfortunately, proven right. It's happening.

[mapl]

Originally Posted by smarty

I am not sure I agree with that statement. Many are born disadvantage. (like to a crack mom, work full time job supporting siblings, fear for their lives in Kindergarten.) instead of being lazy. In many case, there is no guidance. There are lots of peer pressure to not doing well in school. I think I see a statistic that daughter born to un-wed moms will most likely become one.
Hence, my comment regarding "is it the chicken or the egg?". It is a vicious cycle.

Good points..well taken, smarty.

[mapl]

Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331

Then non-European groups began coming to this country in large waves (i.e. Hispanic, Asians, and Jews)

Hate to break this to you, AQUEMINI221, but the Jews that've come into this country are European.

[andyjames]

Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey

Let's face it, it is the nature of people to live with their own kind. So, every city and town in this country is segregated. I suspect that racism is more prevalent in the predominantly white suburbs and exburbs of all cities.

Wow! That's not a racist comment at all! Because of course we all know that white people are the only ones capable of being racist. What a ignorant comment! The fact of the matter is, everyone likes to point the finger at white people. I will grant you that there have been a number of injustices caused by certain European descent people over the years, however only a fool would lump all people together in this category.

White people are no longer slave owners any more than Black people are slaves. This is a tragic fact of the past, but it is hardly fair to lump all people of today in this way.

The reality is, we are all capable of being racist, regardless of our skin color. We all tend to float toward people who look like us, and we can all be tempted to have unfair thoughts toward another human being based simply on their culture or appearance.

Racism is a worldwide issue, and we all have to fight against in ourselves, regardless of what race we happen to be.

[princezz34]

If you don't live in boston or haven't lived for a while then you opinion doesn't really matter that's like me a boston native going to los angeles and talking about how racist they are knowing I haven't been there a day in my life. I know almost everything about boston. (not to bragg). If you were from boston you would know that SOME people in boston get along with people in their race better than other race. Like south boston is full of Irish and Italian people it is a place with the most humble people you ever met. Dorchester, roxbury and mattapan are thought as the urban parts of boston where the high crime is. The thing that makes boston and most of the country racsist is the area that African Americans or Hispanics live in are known as urban areas when caucuasians do as much crime as the "urban area" races. If you lived in boston most of your life you would know that Charlestown is known for being racist that's why people are talking about how racist boston is. I'm not blaming charlestown for most of the racism in boston but it is the majority of them. I don't think boston is racist. I think it is a little segregated.

[DanBosCalTex]

A common phrase to hear the in Boston area-"What are you?" or should I say "What ahhhh yooooooo?" referring to someones lineage. People in the Boston area are very curious about other peoples lineage. Its like asking where you grew up or you middle name. Its not really racial. I have lived in both LA and Boston. Bostonian like many people have already pointed out like to stick with their own. The racist I have met in Cali tend to be more white-supremest type. Of course you will always find old people(no offense to anyone) who are a bit racist but I think that is due to the era that they grew up in.