An Irish-American moving to Boston? (Quincy, Arlington: home, neighborhoods, live)

[Tiger Beer]

I'm Irish-American, who grew up north of Detroit...but always heard of Boston as legendary status for those with Irish ethnicity.

Just curious if the Irish-American presense is still strong in Boston...what would one expect - i.e. is it even relevant there at all?

I'm guessing NOTHING...but thought I'd start a thread and find out what kind of response I might get...

[holden125]

Not sure what you mean by "I'm guessing NOTHING" but the Irish presence is still quite strong in the Boston area. There are many Irish cultural activities, a ton of Irish pubs, and plenty of people just arrived from Ireland. The Boston area has the highest percentage of residents with Irish ancestry of any metropolitan area in the U.S. and it shows.

Ethnic identity and pride has traditionally been strong in the Boston area, for better or worse. In some other places I've spent time in, like Denver or Austin, this isn't really the case. There are people there of Irish ancestry but they don't particularly identify as Irish (or even Irish-American) and there's nothing to distinguish them from anyone else in those areas.

The "melting pot" melted in those cities more than it has in Boston. While "Boston Irish" are not the same as "Irish Irish" from Ireland, their Irish identity has remained fairly strong. Immigrants coming into Boston have historically lived in tight-knit ethnic enclaves and held on to their identity. The Irish thus dominated Boston politics for many decades and a large number of elected officials are still of Irish descent.

So, yes, it's still relevant, but less so than, say, 50 years ago. Because so many people have moved to the suburbs and the Boston-area Irish today are less insular (i.e. more likely to marry and live around people not of Irish background), the Irish identity may not be quite as strong as it once was around here, but it's still a lot stronger than in virtually any other city in the U.S.

The same is true of, for example, Italians in Boston. I remember accompanying some "Italians" who grew up near Atlanta to Boston's North End and they were shocked that someplace that "Italian" existed in the U.S. A lot of locals, on the other hand, think the North End is actually considerably less "Italian" than it used to be, despite the dozens of Italian restaurants there.

My own family is Irish and I'm torn. One of the things I've always loved about Boston is that people didn't just become "generic Americans" and that makes the place unique and gives exposure to other cultures. On the other hand, it's unfortunate that over the years pride in one's heritage, perhaps particularly one's Irish heritage, has bled into the erection of artificial barriers between people, and prevented some from being willing to accept all people regardless of their background.

[Tiger Beer]

I was actually HOPING to hear something like that.

Mostly because the mass majority of Irish-Americans are basically Americans in every form of the word who happen to wear green on St. Patrick's Day, and that is about it.

My family came from Ireland through Boston and ended up in Detroit during the heyday of automobile manufacturing. They've always stressed and seemed very 'Irish' to me...in that Irish-American way.

I've also been to Ireland and met many Irish people, who I LIKE...but realize there does seem to be a difference between Irish-American and Irish-Irish. The idea that Boston still has a strong 'Irish-American' culture seems very intriguing.

Regarding the division based on pride of one's heritage. Well, as an Irish-American person, who is generally just disregarded as 'white' throughout the majority of the U.S., the idea of having a recognized identity among others is something interesting to me. In most of the U.S., if you are white, you are just mainstream WASP (i.e. protestant, etc. - nothingness). It would be cool to be in an area and say you have Irish ethnicity, an Irish name, and Irish background, and have it mean something more than seemingly nothing as it usually does.

How's the Guinness in Boston? Anything like it is in Ireland - tastes incredible in Ireland!

[Arcane]

Originally Posted by Tiger Beer

How's the Guinness in Boston? Anything like it is in Ireland - tastes incredible in Ireland!

I was in Boston a few weeks ago and that's all I drank (ok that and Dunken Donuts coffee). And except for when I was at a Red Sox game, they sell something called Stella, which I can't recall having here in Texas before. Anyways, the Guinness was fine but maybe it's not the same as the stuff you'd drink overseas? But I had a lot of fun in Boston, and yea I could feel the Irishness.

[clevedark]

My personal theory is that what you felt, Arcane, might not have been Irishness, but perhaps a lack of Latino culture. Boston doesn't have the Latino vibe that lots of other big american cities have.

[lrfox]

Many places have Guiness on tap and a separate tap for Guiness "extra cold" which is nice.

In the Boston area you'll get both the "wannabe" Irish-Americans and the real deal. The punks with the forced accents hanging around the Faneuil Hall pubs will be your wannabes. It's not Ireland, so don't expect it to be, but you may find that it's about as close as you'll get in the U.S. (the exception being the ethnic mecca of of NYC). The real Boston Irish aren't going to be as easy to find and as simple to crack as the pretenders you'll see stumbling the streets and dropping their "R's" before heading home to the 'burbs (or worse... their dorm) for bed.

Personally, I feel that the "Irish" aspect of Boston is a bit too Disneyfied (real word... found it in a book). Boston has a lengthy Irish history and many businesses (tourism, restaurant, bars, etc) love to play off of that. You'll find plenty of Irish Pubs (many opened within the last decade), a TON of Shamrock tee shirts, necklaces (I'm wearing one a girlfriend gave me from American Eagle as we speak), coasters, etc. The point is that while there is plenty of Irish heritage here, there's very little first or second generation hanging around still. I do love talking to some of the staff at pubs like Kennedy's who are the real deal, but they are hard to find and aside from the occasional passing conversation or observation at the bar... a tough group to crack. I love Boston's Irish history and heritage (I'm 4th generation Irish... certainly not the "real deal" though), but it's not as obvious as many hope it would be.

Also, Arcane... "Stella" (short for Stella Artois) is a TERRIBLE Belgian Beer. I hate even calling at Belgian because it's not brewed in the typical Abbey-style belgian tradition, but it's from Belgium. I'm sure you've seen it in Texas and I'm sure it was overpriced and underflavored. It's Belgium's "Budweiser." I didn't know they had it at Fenway? I have always forked over the $7.50 for the Sam's.

[holden125]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Many places have Guiness on tap and a separate tap for Guiness "extra cold" which is nice.

In the Boston area you'll get both the "wannabe" Irish-Americans and the real deal. The punks with the forced accents hanging around the Faneuil Hall pubs will be your wannabes. It's not Ireland, so don't expect it to be, but you may find that it's about as close as you'll get in the U.S. (the exception being the ethnic mecca of of NYC). The real Boston Irish aren't going to be as easy to find and as simple to crack as the pretenders you'll see stumbling the streets and dropping their "R's" before heading home to the 'burbs (or worse... their dorm) for bed.

Personally, I feel that the "Irish" aspect of Boston is a bit too Disneyfied (real word... found it in a book). Boston has a lengthy Irish history and many businesses (tourism, restaurant, bars, etc) love to play off of that. You'll find plenty of Irish Pubs (many opened within the last decade), a TON of Shamrock tee shirts, necklaces (I'm wearing one a girlfriend gave me from American Eagle as we speak), coasters, etc. The point is that while there is plenty of Irish heritage here, there's very little first or second generation hanging around still. I do love talking to some of the staff at pubs like Kennedy's who are the real deal, but they are hard to find and aside from the occasional passing conversation or observation at the bar... a tough group to crack. I love Boston's Irish history and heritage (I'm 4th generation Irish... certainly not the "real deal" though), but it's not as obvious as many hope it would be.

Also, Arcane... "Stella" (short for Stella Artois) is a TERRIBLE Belgian Beer. I hate even calling at Belgian because it's not brewed in the typical Abbey-style belgian tradition, but it's from Belgium. I'm sure you've seen it in Texas and I'm sure it was overpriced and underflavored. It's Belgium's "Budweiser." I didn't know they had it at Fenway? I have always forked over the $7.50 for the Sam's.

Ha! We've had this discussion before. I'm not a particular Stella fan but also not a fan of the Belgian abbey beers either. I always get the Sam at Fenway too. Arcane-Fenway doesn't just sell Stella, but these days they sell virtually a different beer at every single concession stand, so there are a lot of choices (including Guinness, I believe) but you'd have to walk around a bit to find some of them.

I don't disagree with the idea that Irish-ness has become somewhat Disney-fied (or at least American-Eagle-ified) in Boston, but I don't think "Irish-American" only means newly arrived or second generation. I still think there's a specific Irish-American identity, as opposed to Irish-Irish or Irish immigrant, that is not dead in Boston, but is dead (or never existed) in some other places.

I grew up in the 1980's with parents who weren't particularly religious, but had a crucifix and a picture of President Kennedy in the kitchen. We made Irish recipes, wore Irish sweaters, took Irish step classes, listened to Irish music, had Irish first names, had relatives in Ireland, and a good percentage of the people we knew here were Irish. I went to Ireland before I went to Maine.

Later on, as I went through higher ed and met people from all over, it became clear to me that the entire concept of cultually cohesive "white ethnics" was alien to a lot of people not from the northeast. As Tiger Beer said, there is an assumption among many people I encountered that non-white people in America had their own cultures, but anyone white in America today was just part of a big, wasp-y, Applebee's and shopping mall, plain jane American white-ness with no identity beyond that. And I don't think that's true for me or a lot of people I grew up around. One (totally not Irish) person I grew with was so surrounded by manifestations of all things Irish that he refused to believe that JFK was the only Irish Catholic president in US history and was sure that every last one of them had been Irish Catholic. He thought we had a lock on the whole country, not just Arlington to Quincy.

So I make no claim to be the "real deal" in terms of being from Ireland, but I'm not part of some rootless monolithic white mass either. I think I'm the "real deal" as far as having a specific identity as an Irish-American from the Boston area, and I think a lot of my views on things have been shaped by what my family experienced over generations. That identity is something I've always felt acutely and I don't think I'm faking anything. My concern is to maintain that identity and be proud of it, without succumbing to the exclusionary provincialism that has sometimes come with it.

Again, Boston folk shouldn't be so quick to compare their town unfavorably with NYC. I think NYC also has some of that Irish American identity still going, but not as strong as Boston, and while NYC has a couple of small neighborhoods with many Irish immigrants, Boston on the whole feels more Irish-influenced than NYC.

[Bostonian08]

Originally Posted by clevedark

My personal theory is that what you felt, Arcane, might not have been Irishness, but perhaps a lack of Latino culture. Boston doesn't have the Latino vibe that lots of other big american cities have.

Maybe not as Latino as Miami, but spend a weekend in Carter Playground and you will see 10 thousand people there & not one conversation in English. Latino is strongly represented in BOS. Like NYC it's just not the dominant culture, it's just one vegetable in the soup, which is good.

Anyone who thinks Irish is phony in BOS ought to pub crawl in Southie. Broughs in some of those Southie pubs are so thick you might think you stepped into another country.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by Bostonian08

Anyone who thinks Irish is phony in BOS ought to pub crawl in Southie. Broughs in some of those Southie pubs are so thick you might think you stepped into another country.

I don't disagree. But even Southie is losing some of its "authenticity" albeit slowly. My point was that while there is a presence of Irish culture here, there is a TON of false culture (i.e. Faneuil Hall bars). Look hard for it and best of luck cracking into those circles.

[Arcane]

Originally Posted by lrfox

Also, Arcane... "Stella" (short for Stella Artois) is a TERRIBLE Belgian Beer. I hate even calling at Belgian because it's not brewed in the typical Abbey-style belgian tradition, but it's from Belgium. I'm sure you've seen it in Texas and I'm sure it was overpriced and underflavored. It's Belgium's "Budweiser." I didn't know they had it at Fenway? I have always forked over the $7.50 for the Sam's.

It was on tap in the outfield. Before I drank Stella I was drinking Budweiser and miller lite. Both were making me noxious so I switched to Stella, which was better; and I'm sure I never had it before that night. We found a pub afterwards to wash my mouth out with Guinness though. I probably drank too much but I had a really good time in Fenway. I was the drunk tourist singing Sweet Caroline.