Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You do understand that basically every single economic report, regardless of the source is in direct conflict with your assessment of the Boston job market right? Forbes, Federal Reserve, Bank of London, etc...all place Boston as one of the strongest economic performing markets amongst the major metro's. So maybe its that you personally are not all that employable perhaps? Not a shot at you but the numbers do not lie.
Not exactly. NH has had lower employment than Mass for years now..
Unemployment - Google public data (http://tinyurl.com/3swp8om - broken link) If Boston is the "hub" then why are the states totally different in their rates
Ok to be fair here are the counties where the capitals of each state are
Unemployment - Google public data (http://tinyurl.com/3mv73rh - broken link)
Again this actually appears to be even more dramatic of a difference.
Massachusetts has a pretty high rate of bachelor degrees per capita (I think it's about at nearly 37%) Those with a higher education are naturally going to be more apt and more able to move vs those without a degree.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Knowing this after obtaining a degree wouldn't it make more sense to go to where there's less and not more competition?
The majority of the people I graduated high school with left the state.
Is Boston good? Don't get me wrong it has the best sports scene in the country if not the world it does have more schools per square mile than much of the planet..there are an ample amount of bars and clubs...
But at the end of the day after graduation then what? Most students leave Massachusetts. If everyone that graduated stayed we'd have nearly 100 million people here!
Three people I grew up with became medical doctors. None of which practice in Mass (CT, NY and MD - John Hopkins). When you have student loans to pay off it only makes sense that you go to where you can live cheaper. Student loan debt cannot be removed with a bankruptcy.
The housing bubble in Mass did not pop. To compare it with the rest of the country does show that housing here has not significantly dropped. But knowing this it actually then makes it harder for people outside of the area to move in and better for people to move out.
Just see how Boston varies with prices of the largest cities in the country and if it is that much different. For mid range LA isn't that much higher. For lower NYC isn't that much higher. Philly and Houston easily are much less.
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Boston LA Philly Houston NYC
Low 230K 245K 6.5%+ 120K -47% 120K -47% 240K 4%+
Mid 340K 350K 2.8%+ 190K -44% 180K -47% 360K 5.8%+
High 520K 570K 9.6%+ 290K -44% 295K -43% 550K 5.7%+
Boston is one of the most expensive metros to live in. Look for yourself
Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed
Technically maine has nearly the same unemployment rate of mass but you don't hear about Maine being a mecca for jobs. Infact 21 states have lower unemployment rates than Mass Unemployment Rates for States
The state has not significantly grown in population. If people felt confident in the economy they would be more likely to have children (and more of them) List of U.S. states by population growth rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Growth slow in Boston metro area - Boston.com (http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-28/news/29360429_1_hispanic-population-population-growth-metro-area - broken link)
What I'm getting at here is that the state can be attractive to some groups of people (getting an education, receiving health care) but there is very little in the way of helping them stay here. The ticking time bomb is when baby boomers retire who honestly is going to buy the properties that they'll sell to pay for retirement? How can everyone downsize?
I would add that the problems that exist in the Boston Metro area are not limited to Boston but they are certainly magnified. Older cities that were primarily put up 100 or so years ago. Lowell, Lynn, Lawrence, Fall River, New Bedford, Springfield, Quincy and Brockton back then were buzzing with activity. Some areas have higher education (springfield (springfield college), Brockton (Massasoit), Lowell (UMass Lowell), Quincy (Quincy College, ENC) but the state should have expanded the system to other areas, others also expanded into the medical field (Quincy and Brockton come to mind)
Even people within the state government recognize that development was uneven. I was asked by one in a group setting "What do you do in western mass if you get a degree?" answer "You leave"
Technology is not an answer either as it is efficient to the point where it does not have to employ large numbers of people. Wang Computers at one point had 33,000 employees. Today Google one of the largest has just under 21,000 worldwide. Digital Computer had 140,000 employees..Today the emphasis is more online than physically making more units. Amazon has 33,500 Facebook has just over 2,000 employees..Twitter 400...
So education, health care and technology. For the systems that provide employment this is fine but only to a point. Customers come from all around the world for the first two but the third has declined. Adding to this the first two are often tax exempt (not to say that they shouldn't be).So this is where the higher taxation rate comes from. Unions exist for the first two but those are also tax exempt.
Meanwhile some ignore this and act as if Boston alone can prop up the entire states economy.The extension of the commuter rail from Fall River/New Bedford misses the point. People live in cities due to proximity to jobs. The cost of taking the rail to Boston for a monthly pass is going to cost $280-300 a month, easily $3.3k or more a year. It would make more sense to carpool!
The state can become more competitive to increase jobs but it is going to take sometime. It wasn't possible to open up retail stores on sunday until 1990, tattoos were illegal for 35 years, liquor stores couldn't open on sunday, fireworks are still illegal etc. Making things legal does create a draw as the growth in Nevada was shown from that.
mdovell: Who said anything about NH? The post I responded to said that Boston had a horrible job market and I was disputing that. This has nothing to do with NH.
So where exactly is all this wealth coming from? And as I said earlier I was responding to the poster that said the Boston job market is poor, the numbers above say otherwise.
I think you need to understand what BLS numbers really mean. The unemployment rate that is given out is the percentage ON unemployment. It does not exactly mean that that is the number of people out of work.
U6 which is a broader indicator includes those that are part time looking for work. If someones unemployment benefits run out they are no longer counted. To be fair the underground economy is not factored in either.
There are other metrics that can be questioned. One new one is the amount of applicants per advertised job. Not all jobs posted are actual jobs. Some are just to gather resumes.
If you notice there's a small "p" by the number you site which states "Preliminary"
BLS also states a different number here Local Area Unemployment Statistics Home Page it shows it here at 7.8% and yet we're talking about the same state for the same month. 6.5 is not seasonally adjusted but the 7.8% is. Seasonal adjustment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I would say that the 7.8% is more accurate.
Ok but if you also read
"Estimates for the following metropolitan areas scaled to 2005 from 2002 estimates using the closest available change estimate (metropolitan, state/provincial or nation) of the change in GDP per capita"
So this was BEFORE the bubble popped.Before the recession...pre 2008 numbers..heck 2002 was before Iraq...before Katrina.
"So where exactly is all this wealth coming from? And as I said earlier I was responding to the poster that said the Boston job market is poor, the numbers above say otherwise."
The job market in Boston CAN be poor or good. If someone has a bachelors degree or higher and is able to tolerate commuting then the market can be good. I predict in the next 10-15 years the percentage will go up to a majority of the people in the state. To those people not much will change. However, to those without a degree things will become much harder. If employers assume someone has a degree and they don't it will not work out well for them.
I don't think it's a good argument to suggest that a job market is the same for everyone in a given area. Florida has tourism..you aren't going to find that much construction there.
GDP is becoming less important as a economic indicator.For example what if someone spends a few hours online surfing the web. A bit of games, message boards and stuff for work. Well that's hard to measure the value of it. What is the value of ads online? Hard to say..what about social networking? Sometimes there really is no market value when the product and service is being given away for free. GDP can rise when there's less of a competitive marketplace as less competition can mean higher prices.
I'd just like to know how in the world San Fransisco is cheaper to live than Boston. I grew up in Los Angeles, and although I haven't been back there in about 7 years, I know the cost of living there is way up and the states budget is laughable at best.
I would also like to know how it was determined that San Francisco is cheaper than Boston or MA for that matter.
Had to make a comment: Love that dirty water....oh Boston your my home
Hum....let me say I am selling two over priced ranch style houses in the SFV,,,so I can get a much cheaper (and nicer home in MA), will go to Worcester County though not Boston.
San Francisco is a beautiful beautiful city,,,,,but unaffordable!!....I could never afford anywhere near the bay area.
CAnnot wait to move back,,,,love the crazy drivers!! love the winters,,,,everything!! I have 2 Bachelors degrees (however one is worthless)...needless to say cannot find a job here in Cali. I know I would have a job now in MA...
I felt that California never accepted me when I came cuz all job experience was from MA....I find Cali to be the most unfriendly place,,,,impossible to make friends...AND I give up....so maybe its me,,,I love the East coast,,,,
Cannot wait,,,,,maybe I can smile again.....if I dont get out of LA I am going to die,,,,maybe I lost drive since being here
Well as they say, one persons sugar is another s poison.
There are many things that make Boston exceptionally expensive. Yes, its a great city, but its all about congestion, supply and demand, and transient populations.
People outside of Boston sometimes don't realize that Boston is not just a regional health care hub, its a global health care hub. And it truly is the college capitol of the country. Still, its a small city. The Hub of Boston is tiny, and traffic problems and surburban congestion make the Hub all that more desirable.
The sales market in Boston is usually close to the top, but not the top of the market. But its rental market is often number one. People from NY, with their elite attitudes, get thrown by this. Usually the sales market in NY is a little higher, but NYers wig out because they have to pay more for apartment. They dont understand logistics. Just because something is bigger, doesnt make it more expensive. Sometimes that space creates opportunity for comfortable sprawl. In Boston, all the students, medical professionals on top of the young professionals coming in and out of the city want to rent and that population fight for small turf. Also, the infrastructure is so old. Space is not efficient. Its amazing how many rinky dink apartments have 15 and 20 foot ceilings.
There are many things that make Boston exceptionally expensive. Yes, its a great city, but its all about congestion, supply and demand, and transient populations.
People outside of Boston sometimes don't realize that Boston is not just a regional health care hub, its a global health care hub. And it truly is the college capitol of the country. Still, its a small city. The Hub of Boston is tiny, and traffic problems and surburban congestion make the Hub all that more desirable.
The sales market in Boston is usually close to the top, but not the top of the market. But its rental market is often number one. People from NY, with their elite attitudes, get thrown by this. Usually the sales market in NY is a little higher, but NYers wig out because they have to pay more for apartment. They dont understand logistics. Just because something is bigger, doesnt make it more expensive. Sometimes that space creates opportunity for comfortable sprawl. In Boston, all the students, medical professionals on top of the young professionals coming in and out of the city want to rent and that population fight for small turf. Also, the infrastructure is so old. Space is not efficient. Its amazing how many rinky dink apartments have 15 and 20 foot ceilings.
I dont know, I think that Boston has cheaper housing. I have friends that rent in both, and NY tends to run a few hundred dollars higher on average, or at least thats my experience.
People outside of Boston sometimes don't realize that Boston is not just a regional health care hub, its a global health care hub. And it truly is the college capitol of the country.
I just don't consider Boston itself a college hub. Yes, there are a number of great colleges in the city - Northeastern, Suffolk, Emerson, BU, UMASS - but the biggest hitters are outside the city limits (MIT, Harvard, even Tufts).
I say this compared to cities like NYC and DC with major universities within the city. In fact, the latter may have more colleges (mostly private) per sq. mile and "per person" than most other cities. Think about it.
I think when many people talk about Boston schools they mean Boston metro, not just within the city limits. If you go to MIT, you can walk to Boston pretty easily.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $53,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
it does have more schools per square mile than much of the planet..there are an ample amount of bars and clubs...
