What's the deal with the schools? (Denver, Boulder: fit in, 2014, renting)

[Rrroman]

Having spent countless hours on Redfin and City-Data looking for the perfect combination of affordable housing, good public schools and nice weather, I was pretty happy to find Louisville - various accolades, many recommendations from folks here, GreatSchools ratings of 8/9 for the Monarch schools on Redfin, nestled between Boulder and Denver, all good stuff.

Then I visit GreatSchools website directly and both schools are listed as 7s. The test scores for math at Monarch High show only 46% of students as proficient in 2014. That's quite concerning. Anyone have inside scoop on what happened there? I've been seeing some articles about a backlash against standardized testing in Colorado - is this related and are the ratings totally divorced from reality?

[katharsis]

I can only speak from personal experience going back about ten years when my kids were in school, so the following might not be worth very much, but I greatly dislike Colorado public schools -- or at least those in Jefferson County.

We adopted our two kids when they were six and four. As they had been severely neglected with NO discipline, they had severe behavioral issues and did not respect adult authority at all. Trying to install a work ethic, responsibility, respect, etc. was a HUGE challenge from the day they entered our home until they left it as adults.

Now, although they often (not always) had wonderful teachers, the school policies did not support our parenting efforts at all. My kids simply refused to do any homework, despite our doing everything to encourage that, but because they had above average intelligence, they learned and did well on most tests. (My son would "ace" math tests, but he never learned the basics of punctuation and spelled abysmally although he had an outstanding vocabulary and was way above average in reading, also; and pretty much likewise for our daughter.) So, when I asked the school to hold the elder one back after the third grade for at least a week or so, to teach her the consequence of not doing what was expected, I was told they could not hold a child back unless (1) they were undersized for their age so they would "fit in" physically with the younger kids, and (2) they were below average in intelligence, and (3) the child agreed to be held back! Therefore, my kids learned very early that as far as school was concerned, they could get away without doing what teachers told them to do with absolutely no consequence (!); and not only did this attitude of "I can do whatever I want" [outside our home] continue throughout high school, but also into adulthood, and they both greatly suffered for it in both their jobs and in their personal relationships.

I would be very curious to know if all public school administrators throughout the U.S. have the same "oh, we can't hold kids back" attitude; and if they do, no wonder kids are so messed up today!

[JohnnyDenver]

Originally Posted by Rrroman

Having spent countless hours on Redfin and City-Data looking for the perfect combination of affordable housing, good public schools and nice weather, I was pretty happy to find Louisville - various accolades, many recommendations from folks here, GreatSchools ratings of 8/9 for the Monarch schools on Redfin, nestled between Boulder and Denver, all good stuff.

Then I visit GreatSchools website directly and both schools are listed as 7s. The test scores for math at Monarch High show only 46% of students as proficient in 2014. That's quite concerning. Anyone have inside scoop on what happened there? I've been seeing some articles about a backlash against standardized testing in Colorado - is this related and are the ratings totally divorced from reality?

Maybe you should just home school your kids.

[G0DDESS]

Originally Posted by JohnnyDenver

Maybe you should just home school your kids.

Actually.. he does have a point.

Check out k12.org and see what's going on around you. Most states have free programs to homeschool your own kids. If nothing else, get them a tutor and it'll help pick up the slack that the school system is dishing out.

[brown_dog_us]

I've never heard anything bad about Monarch, but you could always open enroll into Fariview HS.

[Rrroman]

Originally Posted by JohnnyDenver

Maybe you should just home school your kids.

Not interested in homeschooling. Really just trying to understand the discrepancy between 2014’s States with the Best and Worst School Systems | WalletHub® (CO ranked as #6 overall) and similar rankings, and the hard numbers. I apologize if I've offended, just trying to escape a state with a terrible public school system, so want to make life changes with eyes wide open.

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

I've never heard anything bad about Monarch, but you could always open enroll into Fariview HS.

Looks like I had misunderstood how open enrollment works - looks like 40% of students in BVSD do that? That's definitely something to consider, although I'm not a big fan of school lotteries.

I guess the reason I started this thread is because I really liked reading about the robotics club, the business school, etc. at Monarch, it is clearly a well-regarded school, so would like to understand why the test scores are what they are. Looks like Fairview dropped a point on GreatSchools as well.

[mic111]

I was curious about the numbers you posted so tried to look up our local high school, Legacy to see how they compared. I found stats, not on the GreatSchools web site but on SchoolDigger. Was that were you found yours?

For Legacy I found GreatSchools rating of 8. I think that might have dropped a point but can't be sure. Maybe they have a new scale (different tests or changes in the tests that they go by) or the influx of out of state students is throwing things off. I know when I was a kid and switched schools the first year of new standardized testing I did poorly just because I was unfamiliar with the format and they never told me anything about it because all the other kids had been taking it for years.

School Digger showed Legacy TCAP math for 9th grade at 60% for 2012, 2013, 2014 so very consistent.

I just donated to the Legacy robotics club so I know they have that but am not familiar with all their programs. The marching band was in the Rose Bowl parade this year and previously in the Macy's day parade.

To be perfectly honest I wouldn't worry about the quality of CO schools. Having been on the board for a while pretty much everyone says they love the schools their kids attended. The exception being the above poster who had special circumstances with the adoption and discipline. If you have special needs kids then it does probably pay to really search out the special niche school they need but in general for your run of the mill kid to gifted and talented kids I've always heard happy parents raving about how they love the schools.

Just some musings...

[brown_dog_us]

The HS's in the area are large and have a lot of different groups. If your children are studious they will hang out with other kids with the same habits. The kids who fail the standardized tests won't be in your child's classes.

Monarch is a good school with a lot of good programs. I wouldn't hesitate to send my kids there.

[Idlewile]

To make you feel better, something has changed with the Great Schools score card. Schools that are known as the best, or at least excellent -- having received 10s or 9s in the past 5+ years -- have suddenly dropped one or two points in their system but have measured the same or BETTER in state scorings... which usually are deeper and wider assessments to begin with.

Case in point, in addition to your Monarch example... Here in Austin, we have two top 200 high schools in the nation. Of course, they've been 10s on GS since its inception. Both schools have received new and additional state and national recognition of late. Also, suddenly, both schools' GS ratings dropped to 8 and 9. Doesn't make ANY sense. Nobody here places any credence in it.

Having lived near Monarch for 13 years and having fairly deep knowledge of bvsd, I would welcome the opportunity to send my children there.

[Rrroman]

Thank you all! I'm feeling a lot better about the schools, glad I asked