Will A Fiscal Libertarian Survive Or Complain In Boulder? (Denver: job market, university)

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by bouncing

I see your question as simply two-fold.

Culturally, you might be in the minority, but you'll get along fine. There are a lot of divergent opinions in Boulder and the only (mostly) unrepresented group are southern-style moralists. In terms of getting along with your neighbors, making friends etc, your political beliefs won't alienate you.

But in terms of actually doing business. Boulder does have relatively high city taxes, strict zoning rules, and the like. It was the first city in Colorado (maybe the country) to ban smoking; it makes use of public funds to expand its parks and open space; it strictly prohibits construction of buildings over a certain height limit.

Boulder does have a lot of high tech startups. Usually they do fine, but need contiguous office space that just isn't available in Boulder, so they move to Broomfield or Denver.

I'm a Boulder native and I've lived there on and off most of my life.

height limits are not just in boulder, much of Colorado has restrictions on the height of a building. They all have different ways to calculate it as well. I design residential, and most of the cities within the northern suburbs have a 35' max height limit (different calculations) Boulder in some areas is very aggressive with this though. Boulder is the only area in the front range that requires solar shadow analysis of the building to ensure that your shadows do not cast into the lots surrounding the lot in question. This is more for energy than anything else though.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Very interesting to read your comment again 4 months later - because here in Flagstaff, I've come to the same conclusion. It's a sweeping statement, but everyone here talks about the The City of Flagstaff acting like it's more interested in preserving open space than preserving the middle class.

The City doesn't comment on the Flagstaff Cost of Living Index - it's higher than yours - 122% vs. 103%. At least in Santa Fe, they raised their minimum wage to $10/hour -- recognizing that a tourist town would have problems with drugs and crime unless they paid people more.

Here in Flag there isn't enough affordable housing, and the health care system is corrupt. Very few doctors take Medicare or regular Insurance plans. One report said there are 600 homeless students attending Northern AZ University -- and many stay overnight in the Cemetery (and by that I mean because they have no place to sleep).

The City Council recently refused to pass a gay civil rights ordinance. What an outrage when it's a college town. Fortunately the University has its own GLBT protections, but many students work in the town, and face discrimination in rural Northern Arizona.

Food is expensive since there is no Costco, Trader Joes, or Whole Foods.

The City is obsessed with "smart growth," click here -(Smart Growth Online) which I think Boulder is also (i.e. the 10' wide "multi-use" sidewalks, 7' grass strip medians, and 6' bike lanes on both sides of the street). It definitely looks nice, but smart growth causes housing prices to skyrocket, as someone pointed out about Boulder. When the cost of living is through the roof and people are hungry and homeless, smart growth isn't apporpriate, esp. during a national recession.

I didn't know about this smart growth paradigm until a month ago. Since then I've posted several posts on city-data with links discussing how home prices skyrocket, like in Flag and Boulder. Albuquerque doesn't have smart growth so homes are cheaper.

I know that if I continue to live here or somehow can move to Boulder that I wouldn't be able to buy a home for another 5 years - although both places are PERFECT places for independent thinkers and outdoors enthusiasts. I could move to Albuquerque and buy a home in 2 years, but who wants to deal with crime and 750,000 people when you're used to 90,000!

What do you think about Boulder's smart growth environmental policies?
Flagstaff's City Manager Kevin Burke came from Boulder. Was he a popular politician there?
What types of human services could be improved in Boulder?

Ultimately the small outdoors college towns will have to solve the poverty problem -- and that will probably involve
canceling some of the smart growth policies. As for bicycle trails, I'd volunteer to help build and maintain them, because I use them. I'd rather see my tax dollars go to build low income housing for the 600 University students.

for your "smart growth" statements. Boulder is the MOST restrictive when it comes to energy policies in the Country. It is incredibly difficult and expensive to build or remodel a home within the city and county of boulder.
They have both "Build Smart" which encompasses the HERS energy rating system as well as the "green points" system that compete against each other with different requirements that must be met in order to build. If you use one item for the "green points" system, it cannot be used for the HERS system etc. It is a complicated and expensive system that is costing businesses dearly.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Noahma

for your "smart growth" statements. Boulder is the MOST restrictive when it comes to energy policies in the Country. It is incredibly difficult and expensive to build or remodel a home within the city and county of boulder.
They have both "Build Smart" which encompasses the HERS energy rating system as well as the "green points" system that compete against each other with different requirements that must be met in order to build. If you use one item for the "green points" system, it cannot be used for the HERS system etc. It is a complicated and expensive system that is costing businesses dearly.

I'm all for energy conservation, becoming Energy Independent, greenbelts, bike trails, solar shadow analysis, etc. These projects work in Boulder, since the average income is about $70K, and prospective home buyers with huge salaries in the high tech fields can afford expensive homes ...

Smart growth includes bike trails, open space, "multi-modal corridors," along with impact fees and excessive land use regulation. Again, this all looks very nice -- but several Professors including Paul Krugman have correlated the housing bubble with smart growth (see March 30/31 2009 links at radio tom (radiotomk) on Twitter).

And, smart growth CAN also increase the amount of affordable high density housing downtown (but not always, if expensive loft apartments at $1500/month are built).

So there's a price in terms of high rents, unemployment, and poverty in poorer communities w/ Smart Growth, such as here in Flagstaff, AZ -- where the average income is much less than Boulder ($44,000 here). The average home cost here is $303,000.00

They are talking about cutting the Flag school district budget by 30 percent, and slicing D.A.R.E. out of the budget. Very sad news, but that's in part a result of Arizona's budget problems. And these problems are in turn a result of the fact that every city in Arizona has to comply with the Arizona Smart Growth Act.

Young people like myself who want to become homeowners should check out these policies before relocating. For example, Albuquerque as far as I know does not have smart growth although I am going to call them to confirm. I'm not sure yet about the suburbs outside of Boulder.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

I'm all for energy conservation, becoming Energy Independent, greenbelts, bike trails, solar shadow analysis, etc. These projects work in Boulder, since the average income is about $70K, and prospective home buyers with huge salaries in the high tech fields can afford expensive homes ...

Smart growth includes bike trails, open space, "multi-modal corridors," along with impact fees and excessive land use regulation. Again, this all looks very nice -- but several Professors including Paul Krugman have correlated the housing bubble with smart growth (see March 30/31 2009 links at radio tom (radiotomk) on Twitter).

And, smart growth CAN also increase the amount of affordable high density housing downtown (but not always, if expensive loft apartments at $1500/month are built).

So there's a price in terms of high rents, unemployment, and poverty in poorer communities w/ Smart Growth, such as here in Flagstaff, AZ -- where the average income is much less than Boulder ($44,000 here). The average home cost here is $303,000.00

They are talking about cutting the Flag school district budget by 30 percent, and slicing D.A.R.E. out of the budget. Very sad news, but that's in part a result of Arizona's budget problems. And these problems are in turn a result of the fact that every city in Arizona has to comply with the Arizona Smart Growth Act.

Young people like myself who want to become homeowners should check out these policies before relocating. For example, Albuquerque as far as I know does not have smart growth although I am going to call them to confirm. I'm not sure yet about the suburbs outside of Boulder.

I to am for environmentally friendly construction. I have designed many homes not only in boulder, but around the Denver metro area where the clients wished for this. What I have a problem with is the weight of requiring these items, not only in large custom homes, but general remodels. If you are at the threshold, a simple 10 sqft. addition will turn into a Nightmare. Passing one of the thresholds will require you bring the entire home up to the required HERS rating, for some this could add several hundred thousand dollars to a home that would have had the remodel that could have cost 20-30k. if you disturb the siding, or a % of the drywall inside the home, you must then meet the requirements for your threshold. We have lost way to many clients in the past two years due to these stiff requirements. One home, (one of 3 HERS 9 rated homes built in boulder in the past year an a half) was almost a loss for us, the extra $400,000 tagged onto the price of this home, where the client could have bought a plot of land just a few miles away could have been saved with them still doing some of the environmentally friendly items such as the 90!!! yes, 90!!! solar panels required by the threshold. The requirements are just too damn restrictive, and has helped to stop building within the boulder limits. After all who in their right mind wants to do a remodel on your kitchen, if it can potentially cost you four times as much as it would just miles away from the home. Who would want to build a home in an area where you will be forced to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on essentially air (TDC's, the buying and selling of square footage allowances) $100,000+ for 500 sqft of extra allowed building space? It goes way deeper than I have shared. What this is doing is discouraging people from bringing the older homes up to a more livable energy standard. Living in boulder on $70,000 / year is not going to get you much, Boulder has a very high cost of living.

Most jurisdictions within Colorado are using the 2006 IRC building codes, this brings construction up to I believe a HERS 80 rating, also known as an Energy star rated house.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Noahma

.....What I have a problem with is the weight of requiring these items, not only in large custom homes, but general remodels. If you are at the threshold, a simple 10 sqft. addition will turn into a Nightmare.....

Very interesting information - I would love to move up there ASAP out of this Flagstaff Recession - I'd prefer to rent a place with property for gardening, but I don't see this happening in the City Limits due to Smart Growth and the Building Codes you mention.

How do the nearby Denver and Front Range suburbs compare in terms of their land use and architecture regulations, or perhaps the lack thereof?

Generally speaking, smart growth increases home and rent prices along with unemployment in some cases. However, unemployment has not increased in Boulder, because along with smart growth policies, Boulder has pro-business policies. Flagstaff has smart growth but is a very anti-business climate.

I learned today that two years ago, Albuquerque passed their "Planned Growth Strategy," invoking Principles of Smart Growth. It's hard to get away from this concept. Potential first time home buyers should be aware of smart growth and the issues that you point out. Thanks.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Very interesting information - I would love to move up there ASAP out of this Flagstaff Recession - I'd prefer to rent a place with property for gardening, but I don't see this happening in the City Limits due to Smart Growth and the Building Codes you mention.

How do the nearby Denver and Front Range suburbs compare in terms of their land use and architecture regulations, or perhaps the lack thereof?

Generally speaking, smart growth increases home and rent prices along with unemployment in some cases. However, unemployment has not increased in Boulder, because along with smart growth policies, Boulder has pro-business policies. Flagstaff has smart growth but is a very anti-business climate.

I learned today that two years ago, Albuquerque passed their "Planned Growth Strategy," invoking Principles of Smart Growth. It's hard to get away from this concept. Potential first time home buyers should be aware of smart growth and the issues that you point out. Thanks.

The surrounding areas vary, most use the 2006 IECC and IRC, for building requirements. As I had said in an early post, the code does bring about a pretty efficient home. Broomfield is the strictest building department in the country in general, With Boulder being the strictest in energy policy. Westminster is pretty strict, but easier to get things done than Broomfield. Arvada, well.... as long as you follow the codes, and get them the plans they ask for, you will be able to build what you want. Longmont is slightly less strict than broomfield, with a lighter version of the Boulder requirements. They use only the Green Points system. Pretty much anywhere you go in the metro area will lend to great sunlight for PV and solar water heating, most areas east of the foothills will give you the required consistent 10mph wind necessary to use a residential wind turbine. Residential gardening is not going to be a problem in Boulder, many people do it.

[POhdNcrzy]

Tom, you don't need your own garden in Boulder. You can use the Boulder Community Gardens on the east side of Broadway south of iris Avenue.

People love it. I'm sure you can find info about it on the web....

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

Tom, you don't need your own garden in Boulder. You can use the Boulder Community Gardens on the east side of Broadway south of iris Avenue.

People love it. I'm sure you can find info about it on the web....

Thanks for the info and that's an option for sure. That's where my Libertarian leanings are an issue since I want my own property where I have 100% control. Boulder may be too expensive to own property, as I'm learning many people eventually buy cheaper property in the Denver suburbs starting with the letter L -- that sounds like a great plan, or, Albuquerque, New Mexico...Frankly if Boulder's unemployment is about 6%, then these zoning issues do not matter that much when you're one of the 12% unemployed here in Flagstaff !

However, Boulder IS UNIQUE in NOT experiencing high unemployment DESPITE many restrictions such as Smart Growth. That's due to the industries and science labs that are there. Arizona requires Smart Growth in every city, but has failed to attract high tech companies. Result - Elevated Unemployment, Drugs, Crime, and Foreclosures. Flagstaff has three times the amount of burglaries, robberies, assaults, etc. as Boulder and at least twice the unemployment.

Among AZ and NM cities, The Creative class score (Richard Florida) is highest for Albuquerque, where there is really not much of a recession (just like Boulder). ABQ recruits high tech companies, and also has business/accounting services and educational services.

I would like to see Smart Growth and Impact Fees repealed in areas with severe unemployment, foreclosures, drugs, and crime like Arizona. As for Boulder, since there is no economic crisis, then it doesn't sound like there's any need to change anything.

[Noahma]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Thanks for the info and that's an option for sure. That's where my Libertarian leanings are an issue since I want my own property where I have 100% control. Boulder may be too expensive to own property, as I'm learning many people eventually buy cheaper property in the Denver suburbs starting with the letter L -- that sounds like a great plan, or, Albuquerque, New Mexico...Frankly if Boulder's unemployment is about 6%, then these zoning issues do not matter that much when you're one of the 12% unemployed here in Flagstaff !

However, Boulder IS UNIQUE in NOT experiencing high unemployment DESPITE many restrictions such as Smart Growth. That's due to the industries and science labs that are there. Arizona requires Smart Growth in every city, but has failed to attract high tech companies. Result - Elevated Unemployment, Drugs, Crime, and Foreclosures. Flagstaff has three times the amount of burglaries, robberies, assaults, etc. as Boulder and at least twice the unemployment.

Among AZ and NM cities, The Creative class score (Richard Florida) is highest for Albuquerque, where there is really not much of a recession (just like Boulder). ABQ recruits high tech companies, and also has business/accounting services and educational services.

I would like to see Smart Growth and Impact Fees repealed in areas with severe unemployment, foreclosures, drugs, and crime like Arizona. As for Boulder, since there is no economic crisis, then it doesn't sound like there's any need to change anything.

Colorado for the most part has remained pretty stable, the general unemployment rate is below the national average. The building programs are hurting the construction industry much more than it is in other areas of Colorado. Almost every design firm within boulder has had layoffs, and most builders are starting to get worried as to where they are going to do their work, and how they are going to sell their land that is well... not unbuildable. We have one client that has millions of dollars of land within custom home sub-divisions that cannot build the size homes he has been in these sub-divisions. If he goes to build a smaller home on one of the lots, it starts to effect the values of the other homes in the sub-division which would greatly anger owners, but he cannot get to the same size without spending hundreds of thousands of dollars MORE than what he has in the past. I would say the systems defiantly need change.

[POhdNcrzy]

Tom, it's all well and good what you say, just please don't ever assume you will have an easy time with Boulder's famously difficult job market if and when you do move there....