Why Is Boulder Snobbish, Cliquish, And Racist?

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

It's the thread title itself that draws us to it and came across to me as being very negative.Then the fact that you threw the question in there, it implies that you already think that Boulder is snobbish, cliquish, and racist.That's the way I took it. It automatically puts people who live there and people who like and support the place into the defensive. It's like if I go up to somebody and yell at them and push them; I'm provoking them and forcing them to defend themselves. This may not have been your intent; but here we are 129 posts later.

You would have to actually live in Flagstaff to understand my perspective. People here are constantly rejected from jobs because they're not conservative Mormon students attending NAU (cheap labor, $5.90/hour). 12% of the population is Mormon here, the 5th highest among US cities. It's a very conservative market even though it is erroneously billed as liberal.

Neighbors here don't even say hello. Neighbors who don't answer their doors even when they are home. Poverty and unemployment rates are through the roof. Flagstaff is the most unfriendly, cliquish place in the Southwest. My friends all agree and we talk about your answers. Go read the Flagstaff message boards and you'll see what I mean. You'll quickly see why I posted this question here. Most Boulder respondents have provided well reasoned emails as to their positions, one way or the other. Although based on your answers, Boulder is not perfect (no place is perfect), it is clearly the better choice for a much friendlier, progressive mountain town, and is worth visiting ASAP!

[Neditate]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

Although based on your answers, Boulder is not perfect (no place is perfect), it is clearly the better choice for a much friendlier, progressive mountain town, and is worth visiting ASAP!

Boulder is not a "mountain town". Boulder is not "in" the mountains.

I agree with you, Scott! I can't rep you again either. So

[McGowdog]

Well ok Tom. The high school I went to is in a very small town that is probably a majority Morman influence. I'm not talking about the family who's the focus of a show called Big Love when I say influence. The influence I mean is hard-working family-oriented morally responsible people. But unlike what you say of Flagstaff, they are much more friendly, outgoing, autonomous, than what you're describing.

For one thing, the minimum wage here in Colorado is 7.20 per now, I think. But if you live in say Denver or Boulder, what does that get you? Not enough to make ends meet. We could go around and around about the economy and what people/families are needing to do to "make ends meet."

If you want to warn the country that Colorado, or more specifically Boulder is not the "Land of Milk and Honey", then yes! We agree with you. Don't move here to be miserable and/or take a job from us! Bring a job with you! If you need to pray to the Great Mystery in the Sky to provide for you, and that works, sign me up! Just don't break any laws and exploit our children, women, etc. because this is the United States of America and we won't stand for it.

About Religion, everybody worships something. Even the atheist worships something. It may be Science, or Nature, or Self, but it's innate and stamped into our DNA to do that as human beings. I'm of the school of autonomy when it comes to that worship. If you've found a religion that works for you and, even better, works for a group of people, they ought to be free to practice that religion and thrive and prosper and be happy doing it. If it's at the cost of laws and morals and other groups, it's probably not a good worship. Rye Colorado, for instance, is a dry town and has nothing that I can think of but family owned businesses (except for a District 70 high school and grade school) and that community depends heavily on a town to its north for most all of its services. It's a beautiful town! But I couldn't live there because personally, I'm not in that "circle or brand of religion" and just wouldn't fit in. But I appreciate what they do and I hope they continue. I could site a few last names that go back and back for who knows how long. You won't see anything like that in the big city. In some ways, it's a very "safe" place for some. But I'm quite sure they don't break any laws and I'm quite sure they will look very much the same for some time to come.

I moved out. After I finished school there, I moved away and went and saw the world. Now that I've seen it, I want to move back... or at least close to that community because I'm attracted to how those people live. Just give me my autonomy and uninoninanonymity on What/Who I choose to worship. I don't even drink alcohol anymore (or any less, in my best Groucho impression), but I like that to be a personal endeavor. I want the hills to sound the Trumpets of what a Wonderful Disciplined Human Doing I am...

[CCCVDUR]

McChowDog wrote: Well ok Tom. The high school I went to is in a very small town that is probably a majority Morman influence. I'm not talking about the family who's the focus of a show called Big Love when I say influence. The influence I mean is hard-working family-oriented morally responsible people. But unlike what you say of Flagstaff, they are much more friendly, outgoing, autonomous, than what you're describing."

Clarification: I never posted here that Mormons were unfriendly. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I would never characterize a group of people that way, anyway, it's not fair to stereotype. All I said is that some Mormons prefer to hire other Mormons. That's just human nature, no different than fundamentalists hiring fundamentalists, Jews hiring Jews, gays hiring gays, liberals hiring liberals, and conservatives hiring conservatives. You know, there are those special business directories for fundamentalists, and for the GLBT community.....

Instead, I said that the people in Flagstaff are unfriendly. That's due to several reasons - the high elevation decreases neurotransmitters involved in enthusiam and friendliness; the elite tree-huggers on bicyclists who think they're better than anyone else; the good-old-boys who have been there 50 years who hate the newcomers from Phoenix and L.A., etc. etc. The town does not want to grow, and there's a struggle between the older families who own all the small businesses vs. the newcomers. Most Flagstaff newcomers quickly realize this, and move on. You continue:

"For one thing, the minimum wage here in Colorado is 7.20 per now, I think. But if you live in say Denver or Boulder, what does that get you? Not enough to make ends meet. We could go around and around about the economy and what people/families are needing to do to "make ends meet."

That is why I am also considering Albuquerque, NM where you can rent a house for $900 or an apartment for $600. in Santa Fe, the minimum wage is approx. $10/hr. -Tom

[DressageRider]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

I would never characterize a group of people that way, anyway, it's not fair to stereotype.

Maybe you should reread your post.

[CCCVDUR]

Quote-
Originally Posted by Tom Lane
"I would never characterize a group of people that way, anyway, it's not fair to stereotype."

Dressage Rider wrote: Maybe you should reread your post.

Tom: No, YOU, should re-read my post.

I said two UNRELATED things:

1) Many businesses in Flagstaff are Mormon owned and they undoubtedly prefer to hire Mormons (i.e. Home Depot (2 of them), Staples, Marriott Hotels (3 of them), La Quinta Inns (at least 1), New Frontier Natural Market (their flagship store), and numerous independents.)

Conversely, there are plenty of businesses in Flag that are owned by Jews, Christians, agnostics, atheists, gays, you name it.

2) The people in Flagstaff tend to be cliquish and unfriendly.

In fact, Boulder, Santa Fe, and Ashland, Oregon are just as cliquish as Flagstaff (if not more so), and they don't have nearly the concentration of Mormons as Flagstaff (12% in Flag vs. just a couple of percent in these other towns).

"Small artsy" mountain towns are cliquish and that's just part of the territory.

"Big artsy" towns like Albuquerque are diverse and friendly.

It's as simple as that.

Personally I prefer diverse large socially liberal towns 500,000+, not socially conservative towns like Boulder and Flagstaff, where doctors are too greedy to take Medicare and other Insurances.

I come from a big metro region of over 4 million persons.

These small towns are just not for me.

You cannot accuse me of stereotyping and I deeply resent your post.

[CCCVDUR]

Whose Ox? Quote: Originally Posted by Tom Lane
"Voice something they disagree with and you will be shouted down."

Respondent: Well, it does seem that you are doing the very same thing in your post, and -- now -- so am I.

Perhaps it's just human nature.

Tom replies: I did NOT write that. I stand behind my posts with honesty and integrity and that is why I use my own name. Again I do not appreciate the lack of careful reading and critical analysis in this thread. I suggest that it be closed.

Placitas, New Mexico; Los Ranchos de Albuquerque, NM; Corrales, NM; and Sedona, Arizona are the only artsy towns that I've been to and love with exceptionally nice people who are not cliquish. The one thing they all have in common is mostly yin energy, whereas Santa Fe, Boulder, and Flagstaff have mostly yang energy. Many people love Flagstaff, Boulder, Santa Fe, but they are just not for me. It's a free country.

[katzenfreund]

This thread is closed, at the request of the OP.