The Real Deal on Boulder from Folks Without an Axe to Grind, Please! (Denver: renting, home)

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

Someone started a thread and invited people with an "axe to grind" to stay out and you just can't do that.
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I DON'T have an ax to grind. I am posting questions about the city and its people. Again I have already asked all my questions. I am not pleased with the answers, but that DOES NOT equate to having an axe to grind. Boulder is not for everyone. For me, it would never work because it's too elitist, rich, expensive, and not pro-business enough. End of story.

[McGowdog]

Well allrighty then. You win. It's not for everybody. It's too expensive, from what I've seen and heard, but now I hear you can get some good deals on rentals. As far as being too rich-elitist, I don't think I agree with that. I also don't agree that it's too liberal. It is what it is and that's ok for people who live there, work there, go to school there, visit there, etc.

Not pro-business enough? I thought we'd established it WAS pro business. Boulder has the kinds of business that the people there want.

End of story? For you maybe. You didn't start this thread, remember? I think the proper term here would be, "As you were".

[WolfBoy914]

Boulder isn't pro-business? Really?

Google has an office there, so does Cisco. There are many, many other tech firms in town. Boulder is a great town for buisness because of the ready access of qualified grads coming out of CU and the ease of recruiting other folks to move to the area. Tom, I feel sorry for you. You must have met some pretty mean people when you visited town, are you sure they were residents? I have family who has lived there for decades, they are not what you'd call rich and they are very nice.

I agree that Boulder and Denver are not Utopia. However, the area offers many more positives than negatives.

(Thanks McG, I just wasn't sure.)

[Neditate]

Thanks McGowdog and Wolfboy, I'd rep you again if I could
Obviously "Give it a rest" and "end of story" (his words) does not apply to him.
Can you say exasperating?

[WolfBoy914]

Thanks Neditate.

Hopefully we'll be up there soon. I need me some mountain air.

[Remember]

Wow. Lots of posts since I was last here. Hmmm... mostly about Tom...
Like everyone else, I'd like to put this part to rest and get back to Boulder.
I will say just this.
Tom, you wrote:
"I keep having to defend myself as an outsider simply asking questions"
Poor guy.
You also wrote:
"it's too elitist, rich, expensive, and not pro-business enough"
"they are both cliquish to the extreme"
"people are competitive and greedy"
"full of socialists"
"we don't like Boulder because you folks are too rich"
Even when others call you on this, you can't help making a few more backhand comments as you defend yourself.
You, sir, are a bigot. Welcome to the identity you have cultivated. Seriously, Tom, I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I'm just asking you to take a step back and let this sink in.
You make stereotype after stereotype after stereotype. You could not possibly have met even 1% of the people in this town, yet you've written all of them off. The only possible intention of such statements could be to exclude and to cause pain.
You feign innocence about this, but consider this: I started this thread with a post about how eager and positive I was about moving my family to Boulder. Yeah! I asked for help from other pro-Boulder folks. I pointed out that there was already an anti-Boulder thread and explained that I didn't need any more of this kind of talk. Yet you insisted on infringing on this topic to kick a little sand in my face. You are not innocent.
Finally, if you hate rich people, it's going to be very difficult for you to ever accumulate money. You won't let yourself go there because you have a deep belief that having money will make you a bad person. May be worth challenging that belief.


Back to Boulder!
I'm glad to hear about affordable rentals. Ever since becoming home owners, my wife and I have been reluctant to rent again, since there's no interest to write off, no equity to gain. But I'm not sure the tax write-off from interest on a huge mortgage, with the uncertainty of gaining equity for who knows how long, is necessarily a better idea than paying rent for a while.
While I appreciate everyone's comments about the various surrounding areas -- and we will check them out -- we're pretty sure we'll end up close to downtown Boulder, since we intend to open a business there and have always had a dream of being able to walk or take a short bike ride to work. Does anyone have any idea how much a nicer 3 or 4 bedroom house in that area would rent for?
Thanks for all the help.

[WolfBoy914]

Well said Remember.

[Remember]

Thanks, Wolfboy. Good luck with the job leads. Hope you make it to CO soon.

[CCCVDUR]

I understand your concerns, although will not try to defend myself from your personal attacks since they are not accurate ... and I hope that will be the last of them. I am not attacking Boulder, we just disagree on issues regarding city planning and growth.

On a very fundamental level, the rich liberals in Boulder and Flagstaff have both enacted "smart growth" policies that limit construction and drive the cost of housing through the roof. In Flagstaff, the people got angry and voted down the City Council's limitations on big box stores.

This situation is not a good scenario for a young person moving to town and trying to buy a home or start a business. Personally as a potential newcomer, and homeowner, I have a problem with this, apparently you do not, so we'll have to agree to disagree. OK?

The article below states that in 1969, Boulder had affordable housing before all the anti-growth measures were enacted. By the way, Albuquerque has affordable housing and no severe restrictions on land use. The Average price of a house in Boulder is $400K vs. about $200K in Albuquerque.

It looks like Flagstaff probably has a better chance of overturning smart growth policies than Boulder, since the poverty rate is much higher, and the income disparity between the rich and the poor is much greater. Flagstaff's city manager, Kevin Burke, came from Boulder. We are not as liberal as you are, so he would be thrown out if the city manager was an elected position - here, it's an appointed one.

"Smart Growth Makes Housing Unaffordable"
http://americandreamcoalition.org/BriefCO.pdf

Dr. Wendell Cox has insights on housing affordability and smart growth:

DEMOGRAPHIA: Demographics Development Impacts Market Research & Urban Policy

[WolfBoy914]

I still have to disagree about Boulder not being a good place to set up a business. My brother-in-law just moved there and started a business and it is going very well.

And Tom... You simply need to stop comparing Flag and Boulder. You can not. They are far too different. Boulder is much larger, nearly twice the size in fact and that isn't including the 30k CU students. Then you have to add in the surrounding areas and Denver just down the road. Flag may want to be like Boulder, but it isn't. I have been to both many times, in no way do they even come close to having the same vibe.