So-called "snootiness" of Boulder (Denver, Grand Junction: fit in, apartments, crime)

[alvanos]

I've heard a lot about it on this forum. (Note that I've never experienced in my two visits to Boulder, but I'm not sure anybody can draw a conclusion in either direction from such a short time).

Anyway, the same ppl I hear talk about the "snootiness" in Boulder point to Louisville as a better example of someplace to live. I'm open to either, but my question is this: aren't Boulder and Louisville all of like 3 miles apart? How can the mentality/attitude really differ all that much? I would expect them to be very much the same, either way. Thanks for the input!

[DressageRider]

Firstly, I don't find Boulder snooty. But I know people from Boulder, Louisville, Lafayette... There is not a great deal of difference on my snob-ometer (well, if I had a snob-ometer).

[davya]

Historically, the folks in Louisville never liked the Boulder Folks. But that was along time ago in a land far far away....when there was 6 miles in between.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by davya

Historically, the folks in Louisville never liked the Boulder Folks. But that was along time ago in a land far far away....when there was 6 miles in between.

Although I am on my way to Colorado, my conclusion after being rejected from numerous jobs where I was the best candidate in "twin cities of Boulder" -- such as Flagstaff, AZ; Sedona, AZ; Santa Fe, NM; Taos, NM; Espanola, NM; and even fired in Albuquerque, NM; and traveling widely in the Southwest; is that this sort of attitude is ONLY present in places where the "good old boys" run the City Council and City planning departments.

Why? Well they drive out new competing businesses, creating an economic climate of rich homeowners, and the rest of us who are very poor. That results in classism, elitism, and poverty.

BTW Las Vegas-Henderson, NV; and Yucca Valley, CA are NOT "cliquish" and are very pro-business. I've visited Yucca Valley and they want new businesses.

Based on my firing and job rejections in the Southwest, I have asked numerous people about the attitude problem -- and the preponderance of opinion (not everyone) is that Boulder is generally not cliquish - unlike the aforementioned Southwest towns.

Boulder has a very strong pro-business climate. The city planners tell me that 93,000 persons work in Boulder everyday -- and 103,000 live in Boulder. The unemployment rate is always 1% below the Colorado average, and 2% below the national average, because it is pro-business.

In Flagstaff our unemployment is in the double digits because the good old boys don't let that many new businesses come in, yet everyone in Arizona and Nevada wants to live here in the mountains.

Anyone else w/ similar theories / observations / experiences?

And if all else fails, Denver is a thriving, international city and is one of the top 10 places for people relocating during this recession, as just reported by Forbes:
Ten Cities Where Americans Are Relocating - Forbes.com
It is also ranked by Forbes as one of the most livable cities:
America's Most Livable Cities - Forbes.com

[POhdNcrzy]

I'm a big fan of Boulder but there are indeed quite a few snooty people there.

I think the main answer to the question is that Louisville is not the same as Boulder, Boulder is much more tony and affluent.

[mhouse2001]

I've attempted to move to Boulder on several occasion in the last few years and each time I encountered some of the rudest people I have ever met. Yes, snooty is indeed an appropriate label. I have since asked myself why bother? It may be in a pretty location with a larger city and amenities nearby, but I couldn't handle the "we're better" aura that seemed to pervade everywhere I went. Yes, I walked the Pearl Street outdoor mall and even enjoyed window shopping. But the waiters in the restaurants and the salespeople in the stores seemed bothered to be there. The traffic was ridiculous and the overabundance of restrictive signage were turnoffs. It ISn't better is the conclusion I've drawn. My politics might fit in quite well in Boulder, but I've found far friendlier people in "conservative" towns. I wonder why the disconnect? Go to small town America and the people are respectful, maybe not worldly, but they're helpful (unless the town is on the skids--that seems to be a fair generalization based on my experiences). Go to the "liberal" towns (and I'm sorry for the use of such labels) and the people are begging to be slapped for their indifference, self-centeredness, and overall disdain.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

I've attempted to move to Boulder on several occasion in the last few years and each time I encountered some of the rudest people I have ever met. Yes, snooty is indeed an appropriate label. I have since asked myself why bother?........ Go to small town America and the people are respectful, maybe not worldly, but they're helpful (unless the town is on the skids--that seems to be a fair generalization based on my experiences)........... Go to the "liberal" towns (and I'm sorry for the use of such labels) and the people are begging to be slapped for their indifference, self-centeredness, and overall disdain.......

If that's indeed my perception as well (I hope not!) -- as it is in Albuquerque, Flagstaff, and Santa Fe -- then I'll head from Boulder back to Seattle, where Liberals are the most kind-hearted, open minded, polite, philanthropic people in the US !

As for your statement that "conservative" towns are more helpful, that's not my experience. Flagstaff, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque are all *VERY* conservative (that is, RELATIVE to Seattle, San Francisco, etc.), and all three are also VERY unfriendly.

What small towns have you found where people were helpful and friendly ?

[JMadison]

The perception (or self perception) of Boulder elite-ness probably stems from the higher property values the "Republic of Boulder" has due to limited growth policies. Simple as that.

Boulder is the price leader in the area, so folks that live there, rightly or wrongly, perceive themselves as higher up the chain.

Guess that'd be no different than say folks that live on Jupiter Island vrs. Jupiter the town or West Palm vrs. Palm Beach Island to use two Florida examples with similar attitudinal differences.

[mhouse2001]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

If that's indeed my perception as well (I hope not!) -- as it is in Albuquerque, Flagstaff, and Santa Fe -- then I'll head from Boulder back to Seattle, where Liberals are the most kind-hearted, open minded, polite, philanthropic people in the US !

As for your statement that "conservative" towns are more helpful, that's not my experience. Flagstaff, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque are all *VERY* conservative (that is, RELATIVE to Seattle, San Francisco, etc.), and all three are also VERY unfriendly.

What small towns have you found where people were helpful and friendly ?

I lived in Seattle and loved it. The first year was like a vacation with so much to see and do. The people were friendly but a bit too reserved for my needs. I think it was the constant gloom, which is why I only lasted another year. My SAD was exacerbated by the weather. I now live where it's sunny more than 300 days a year and it's much more difficult to be "down", though it still occurs.

The small towns that I've encountered friendly helpful people in are too numerous to mention. I didn't live in any of them, so perhaps my perceptions are not to be trusted. But as a traveler, going to small towns in the West primarily, I've found the people provided better service (with a smile) and made me feel more like I was at home. I didn't feel that way in Boulder as I drove around town seeing apartments. One woman wouldn't show me anything because the office was closing in five minutes. She wouldn't even hand me a printed floorplan because it was too much of a bother. And I especially didn't feel at home while shopping and dining out.

I don't like Flagstaff as a city. It's laid out badly and it's too cold. It's also way too transient what with so many hotels for those traveling by on I-40. I know it's the most liberal-minded place in Arizona but it doesn't do much for me. Albuquerque, while in a beautiful but isolated setting, is too crime-ridden and I think it's way too spread out...and I live in Phoenix which is even bigger! ABQ felt dangerous to me and the crime statistics bear me out. I love the weather there though. I do think Boulder has a lot to offer and if I could tolerate the people, I'd be there in a flash...or if I wanted to save some money, I'd be Boulder adjacent.

I also lived in San Francisco but actually preferred Seattle over it. As a gay person, I thought it would be heaven but it is NOT. There's a lot of people there that couldn't make it anywhere else and that's why there IS a San Francisco. But it's way too overpriced, is very crowded, the housing choices are poor, and the assault of so many cultures can be draining. I'm getting older...I need the quiet of a suburban lifestyle but crave the amenities of a "proper" city within a short drive or bike ride.

I just haven't found that perfect spot. I've seen many perfect spots: the self-sufficient location of Grand Junction CO (way too conservative politically), the majesty of greater Moab UT (I ride my bike, but here they RIDE their bikes!), the small town charm of Missoula MT (probably too cloudy again), the tree-lined intelligent aura of Lawrence KS (I get my Midwest values reaffirmed in Kansas?), but if the people don't seem nice, I hesitate to make the move. Phoenix keeps me employed, meets my shopping and dining needs, gives me great sunshine for year-round bicycling and hiking, doesn't cause too much stress, but doesn't fill my soul...

Wow, such a long response! Sorry!

[DressageRider]

It is funny because my own experience is that Boulder is very "small town" in its friendliness, and I could possibly imagine that this is because a ton of the people who make up the population are from the Midwest (I've met endless people from Michigan and Wisconsin). Similarly, my experience -- unlike that of Mhouse -- is that the restaurant servers are generally extremely friendly, although somewhat incompetent. Of course, not everyone is nice and not everyone will bend over backwards for you, but people are just people and they have good days and bad.

Sometimes I think (and not referring to this thread here) that a lot of the perceived snobbery is what the person is projecting. But regardless, we're all just generalizing from our own experiences. That said, I've met a ton of great people here who came to Boulder because they like being in a small liberal city near the mountains and love all the sunshine.