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I have felt the same thing for 5 days! Boulder is neither a college-town or art colony. It's an extension of Denver w/ a University next to high mountains. Please tell me how that can make the place special and win so many awards. With so much traffic and congestion, there's very little old town character to Boulder. To me, it feels like when I was in Texas.
What REALLY gets me upset is that Boulder is neither Artistic or Bohemian - when compared to Santa Fe or Sedona, for example!
Its also not a laid back place like Flagstaff. Flagstaff/Sedona have MUCH better mountain biking w/o Pollution from Denver. Boulder drivers are rude and inconsiderate to Tourists going slow through downtown Boulder.
I vote Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe as the three top SW "college-art-mountain" towns...I love Lake Tahoe, too. Of the three, Santa Fe has the lowest unemployment, highest wages, but good luck getting the locals to hire you...
Boulder is what it is. Some people really like it. I certainly do. I'll tell you what it has that those other towns don't - jobs.
Boulder IS dense. Boulder's footprint hasn't appreciably grown for several decades. There's been a small bit of development on the extreme north end of boulder, but other than that the last big expansion of the city's boundaries was many years ago. Since the footprint has fixed, the town has deliberately tried to ENCOURAGE densifying the core -- building up and not out as means of sustainability.
At the same time, Boulder has always tried to define itself as "separate" from Denver. Boulder's aggressive plan of purchasing open-space fell a bit short, however. As Katiana has pointed out, Boulder's constraints on growth displaced the growth to the US-36 corridor -- believe it or not much of which has arrived in fairly recent memory. Despite its best efforts, Boulder wasn't able to purchase enough open space to stop encroachment of suburban sprawl from Denver. Now, it's joined at the hip with Denver, even if some Boulderites are still in denial about this.
In hindsight, it was inevitable. Boulder is just too close to Denver to really have an independent identity. If Boulder was situated, oh, about 10 miles further north, say, around where Lyons is, I think Boulder's open-space protections probably could have allowed it to hold out for at least a few more decades as NOT part of Metro Denver. On the other hand, a further-out Boulder probably couldn't have attracted as much industry as they have.
The plus side is that Boulder County is one of the main economic engines that drives Metro Denver forward -- in many industries it is Boulder, not the city of Denver, that has the highest concentration of jobs. Boulder County is, for example, likely one of the highest concentration of computer storage-related companies in the country, with pretty much every company in that field represented.
In state, you hear a lot of people talk about Boulder as some kind of lefty hippie haven, but having lived there myself I've never really agreed. As Tom pointed out, it has a big population of research scientists and engineers, and a huge concentration of entrepreneurs.
Boulder is what it is. Some people really like it. I certainly do. I'll tell you what it has that those other towns don't - jobs.
Agreed! Not sure why so much time is spent comparing Boulder to other places and complaining that it's not like other places.
It's hard to get a true feel for a place by visiting for a short time.
Has it been windy lately? Yes! And if you don't like it now, don't even think about coming in the winter when it's worse.
This is such a beautiful time of year here - everything is green from the moisture (which can sometimes be snow this time of year so be glad we haven't had that issue this spring - yet).
This area is not for everyone. As mentioned, it is what it is.
I think Boulder isnt for you. Thats fine. Lots of people like it. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean everyone else is wrong about it. I like that Boulder is like a small city. If it was really like a small quiet mountain town I probably wouldnt like it. I just moved from the east coast from a suburb of Philly. The traffic, driving, and density all seem tame to me. Then again, Denver doesnt really feel like a big city to me either. I dont agree at all that you feel "emotionally down" here. I feel just the opposite everytime I look at the mountains. You are too attached to labels other people have given it. Youve come and experienced it for yourself now, like it or leave it.
I love Boulder and the "small city" feeling downtown. Every time I go there, Pearl St. is busy and filled with interesting people. The college students keep it young and interesting too.
Boulder IS dense. Boulder's footprint hasn't appreciably grown for several decades. There's been a small bit of development on the extreme north end of boulder, but other than that the last big expansion of the city's boundaries was many years ago. Since the footprint has fixed, the town has deliberately tried to ENCOURAGE densifying the core -- building up and not out as means of sustainability.
At the same time, Boulder has always tried to define itself as "separate" from Denver. Boulder's aggressive plan of purchasing open-space fell a bit short, however. As Katiana has pointed out, Boulder's constraints on growth displaced the growth to the US-36 corridor -- believe it or not much of which has arrived in fairly recent memory. Despite its best efforts, Boulder wasn't able to purchase enough open space to stop encroachment of suburban sprawl from Denver. Now, it's joined at the hip with Denver, even if some Boulderites are still in denial about this.
In hindsight, it was inevitable. Boulder is just too close to Denver to really have an independent identity. If Boulder was situated, oh, about 10 miles further north, say, around where Lyons is, I think Boulder's open-space protections probably could have allowed it to hold out for at least a few more decades as NOT part of Metro Denver. On the other hand, a further-out Boulder probably couldn't have attracted as much industry as they have.
The plus side is that Boulder County is one of the main economic engines that drives Metro Denver forward -- in many industries it is Boulder, not the city of Denver, that has the highest concentration of jobs. Boulder County is, for example, likely one of the highest concentration of computer storage-related companies in the country, with pretty much every company in that field represented.
In state, you hear a lot of people talk about Boulder as some kind of lefty hippie haven, but having lived there myself I've never really agreed. As Tom pointed out, it has a big population of research scientists and engineers, and a huge concentration of entrepreneurs.
In a sense, you could compare it to Santa Monica, CA. Even though Santa Monica is completely surrounded by other cities of the L.A. metro area (and the ocean, rather than mountains to the west) it still maintains it's own identity. Boulder doesn't have to remain 100% physically cut off from the Denver metro area to remain "Boulder".
Tom wrote:
"I vote Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe as the three top SW "college-art-mountain" towns...I love Lake Tahoe, too. Of the three, Santa Fe has the lowest unemployment, highest wages, but good luck getting the locals to hire you."
sectachrome wrote:
"Some people really like it. I certainly do. I'll tell you what it has that those other towns don't - jobs."
tom writes:
I don't know if I'll move there, but IT IS worth moving for that factor alone, given THIS economy! Except for Boulder (and perhaps Tahoe?), they're all cliquish towns, and won't hire newcomers. So among these, Boulder is still the best place for newcomers to find a job, w/ just 6% unemployment. One has to have "local connections" in these other towns. One place in Colorado that I found VERY cliquish and uptight was Nederland (above Boulder). U know, is this "cliquishness" a recent thing or what, folks? I have NEVER experienced it in Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada until moving to the S.W. in 2006. I hope we aren't all becoming this way because of the recession!
tfox wrote:
"In a sense, you could compare it to Santa Monica, CA. Even though Santa Monica is completely surrounded by other cities of the L.A. metro area (and the ocean, rather than mountains to the west) it still maintains it's own identity. Boulder doesn't have to remain 100% physically cut off from the Denver metro area to remain "Boulder"
I thought EXACTLY the same thing when driving into town -- through walled off Smart Growth suburbs w/ 50' grass strips -- for 3 hrs on I-36 from Denver to Boulder @ 30mph. So much for "smart" growth reducing commute time! Ridiculous. Smart growth has been disproven and should be cancelled, because we need more construction and mass transit jobs. It's just 2 hrs from n Phoenix to Flag at 70mph. To my knowledge, Flagstaff=Sedona have no immediate plans of becoming as dense as Boulder.
What will the Boulder County Smart Growth Gurus do about the traffic up Boulder Creek Canyon to Nederland? During the day, that's just as heavy as I-17 between Phoenix and Flag, I kid you not. I would find bicycling w/ all that traffic up that canyon rather unpleasant on a Saturday afternoon. There are bike routes in rival cities of Flag, Sedona, Eugene, and Corvallis with 1/10th the weekend traffic
Also Boulder over 90% of its area is a traditional Grid City smashed up against a backdrop of steep forested mountains. Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe are all (for the most part) non-grid cities, set against *DISTANT* mountains...
For those of us "fleeing the coasts," Boulder -- at first -- probably does seem too cosmopolitan -- based on its layout. Perhaps closer inspection will reveal that the mountains -- on "the edge of town" -- offers what we're looking for???
To those who don't like Boulder, please reply...Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe (NM) are always love at first site, but people leave because of the hiring cliquishness. Some people clearly do not like Boulder at first site. IS it an acquired taste, folks? I think the issue here COULD be the layout!
Now that I think about the layout, Kevin Burke has managed two entirely different cities!
Flagstaff-- flagstaff - Google Maps
FLAG: NOTE ONLY 15% OF THE SELECTED FLAGSTAFF METRO AREA
IS GRID LAYOUT....MOST OF THE RESIDENTIAL SUBURBS, WESTERNMOST (WOODLANDS VILLAGE), AND EASTERNMOST BUSINESS DISTRICTS (THE MALL AND VICINITY) ARE ON CURVED STREETS....
I thought EXACTLY the same thing when driving into town -- through walled off Smart Growth suburbs w/ 50' grass strips -- for 3 hrs on I-36 from Denver to Boulder @ 30mph. So much for "smart" growth reducing commute time! Ridiculous. Smart growth has been disproven and should be cancelled, because we need more construction and mass transit jobs.
I don't understand - this is like one of those high school math problems. If Tom left Denver on I-36 driving 30 miles to Boulder and he was driving 30 miles per hour, how long would it take him to get there? Answer = 3 hours. Did you get caught is some sort of vortex? Wait, were you driving or was John Locke? Because you probably could have got in the carpool lane.
Tom wrote:
One place in Colorado that I found VERY cliquish and uptight was Nederland (above Boulder).
What will the Boulder County Smart Growth Gurus do about the traffic up Boulder Creek Canyon to Nederland? During the day, that's just as heavy as I-17 between Phoenix and Flag, I kid you not. I would find bicycling w/ all that traffic up that canyon rather unpleasant on a Saturday afternoon.
I know, I probably shouldn't read your posts. But I just cannot let these comments pass. (I will try to be nicer this time.)
How much time did you actually spend in Nederland? A few hours? What about it made you think it was cliquish (a term you are so very fond of) and "uptight" (made me laugh out loud!)? I have lived in Boulder and Nederland so I DO have a frame of reference. I do not understand where you are coming from.
Boulder Canyon traffic is heavy on weekends because of all the flatlanders who want to enjoy the mountains. Week days are a breeze. A little traffic during am and pm "rush hours" but nothing to complain about. I have driven it thousands of times and my boyfriend commuted for years. As for people who bike Boulder Canyon... they are nuts or have a death wish. I can't tell you how many times I've nearly hit a cyclist coming around a blind curve and they are smack in the middle of the lane or wobbling all over the road. It's crazy, it's upsetting, it's dangerous. I am surprised people are not killed every week. There are far better places to ride that are safer with wide shoulders for cyclists. Most people who live here know better. People who are biking for environmental reasons take their bikes on the bus to or from Boulder.
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1) Boulder Jobs! 2) Cancel Smart Growth!
I have NEVER experienced it in Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada until moving to the S.W. in 2006. I hope we aren't all becoming this way because of the recession!
Ridiculous. Smart growth has been disproven and should be cancelled, because we need more construction and mass transit jobs. It's just 2 hrs from n Phoenix to Flag at 70mph. To my knowledge, Flagstaff=Sedona have no immediate plans of becoming as dense as Boulder.
I am surprised people are not killed every week. There are far better places to ride that are safer with wide shoulders for cyclists. Most people who live here know better. People who are biking for environmental reasons take their bikes on the bus to or from Boulder.
