Pros And Cons Of Infilling Boulder (Denver, Longmont: 2009, apartments, unemployment)

[CCCVDUR]

First impressions on arrival mean something, so here we go ...

Here in Boulder for 33 hours -- and to be honest, as one used to rural environments on the edge of larger cities, I am incredibly dissapointed over the traffic noise and congestion from the Downtown Infilling ... HOWEVER ... the glass is still half full here ... (see below)

Very high population density within the city limits ... then, a sharp contrast with the farms north and south of town (due to the zoning and "Boulder Urban Growth Boundary") ...

Then, outfilling as well. Large apartment buildings next to 50' wide grass strips -- in the middle of nowhere near farms -- 8 miles NE of Boulder near Longmont.

Too much traffic in the Boulder city limits ... and congested four and six lane boulevards in a *mountain* town? Hmm...

The congestion / density / infilling in Boulder reminds me of driving through Palm Springs, CA. and West Hollwood, CA. (although the traffic is not even close...).

In fact, in the center of Boulder during pm drive amongst 4+ story buildings, you wouldn't know if it's Boulder, Portland, or San Francisco.

I'm surprised that Flagstaff, AZ. and Santa Fe, NM are one third as congested (and developed, i.e. population density) as Boulder.

Yes, I know there's heavy traffic w/ graduation week ... but Broadway is six lanes in some places ... so it does accommodate a lot of traffic ...

Other than that, this town is very intriguing for young singles ... with a diversity of businesses/entertainment venues for a younger demographic ... along with a great urban trail system, gorgeous green countryside and mountains, pro-business/pro-entrepreneur climate, and remarkably low unemployment at 5.9% (City estimate), and 6.2% (Bureau of Labor Statistics 3/2009).

The Boulder Creek trail / canyon is incredible, in order to "get away" from the downtown infilling -- so the glass is still half full for this town -- in terms of "congestion" versus nature nearby.

I do not know if I'll live here or not, given my own considerations ... but I am very glad to be away from the Arizona Recession.

*What do you think about infilling, outfilling, and smart growth?

**Should the "Boulder urban growth boundary" be pushed out into the farmlands to decrease traffic?

***Do you agree with the cosmopolitan, trendy policies of Infilling (i.e. downtown 4 story apartments)?

Thus far, I only have two opinions on infilling: 1) I love the opportunity to be in close proximity to other young people. That is VERY important to me, having lived in more "rural" suburbs of larger cities. 2) There needs to be a better way to handle traffic flow, in dense infilled urban areas -- in order to DECREASE NOISE and AIR POLLUTION.

That said, the solution is obviously more mass transit and ... BICYCLING! There are MANY more bicycle commuters in Boulder than Flagstaff, according to City-Data.Com

And I think w/ our international energy crisis, we are moving in these directions relatively soon.

Anyway, just my first impressions after finally arriving here. They're only worth two cents and subject to change (no pun intended!).

Thanks for answers to questions about Boulder on City-Data.Com over the last few months.

[CCCVDUR]

Actually, on second thought on day two, Boulder would benefit from more infilling, that is, if the Urban Growth Boundary isn't pushed out.

Reason? More people could live in the City Limits, and not have to crowd those noisy 8-10 lane boulevards from Longmont and other suburbs.

The problem is, we all want to own a car.

Even if you own a bike, you still want a car, and you still inevitably drive your car, and need a place to park that car. It's just human nature.

Therefore, with more infilling, you need more bike trails, more multi-modal corridors, and mass transit.

For a town like Boulder with less square miles than Flagstaff or Thousand Oaks (CA), yet higher population density, it is much more cost effective to gradually improve the already incredible Boulder paved bike trail system.

Anyway, at this point, there's not much "boulder-green" in terms of traffic flow. Of course this will change, as gas prices rise again, and more bike trails go in.

With a population of 103,000 persons, and 93,000 employees in the city, Boulder would be more "green" if more people lived in the City in new and upcoming infill developments.

Is this part of the long term strategy?

Comments?

Do the locals here argue over pushing out the urban growth boundary?

[sectachrome]

So, how do you think Boulder compares with Flagstaff?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Tom Lane

With a population of 103,000 persons, and 93,000 employees in the city, Boulder would be more "green" if more people lived in the City in new and upcoming infill developments.

Is this part of the long term strategy?

Comments?

Do the locals here argue over pushing out the urban growth boundary?

At one point, part of the long term strategy was to reduce the number of jobs! This talk has greatly diminished as the economy has tanked, first in the early 2000s, and even moreso in the past few months.

I don't think anyone would agree with pushing out the urban growth boundary, and frankly, Boulder has no control over what is going on outside its city limits, anyway.

I am not in favor of more infill in Boulder. I think it is dense enough (no pun intended) as it is.

[denverian]

If Boulder doesn't want to build out, then it has to build up. Meaning mid-rise, dense housing and office space. The problem with "anti-growth" cities is that you eventually end up with sky-high housing costs, which then pushes out average people. I guess this has already happened to an extent in Boulder as housing is higher than Denver, from what I've heard.

Boulder needs to look at small European cities as an example. They're compact, urban, and have good public transport, but from anywhere in the small cities, you can run/walk/bike out of the city into greenbelt areas. But if Boulder thinks it can remain "small town", it's sadly mistaken.

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by sectachrome

So, how do you think Boulder compares with Flagstaff?

There is no comparison since Boulder is dense and commercialized -- with very little sense once you're within the urban growth boundary that it's a "small town."

Compare Boulder to Flagstaff, Sedona, Prescott, and Santa Fe -- places that have all retained their small town character.

Given the dense urbanization, Boulder is neither a "mountain town," "college town," or an "art colony."

In terms of jobs, Boulder is the place to get rich amongst these "smaller" towns -- but one pays a price in doing so if they dislike traffic and urbanization.

Originally Posted by denverian

If Boulder doesn't want to build out, then it has to build up. Meaning mid-rise, dense housing and office space. The problem with "anti-growth" cities is that you eventually end up with sky-high housing costs, which then pushes out average people. I guess this has already happened to an extent in Boulder as housing is higher than Denver, from what I've heard.

Boulder needs to look at small European cities as an example. They're compact, urban, and have good public transport, but from anywhere in the small cities, you can run/walk/bike out of the city into greenbelt areas. But if Boulder thinks it can remain "small town", it's sadly mistaken.

Flagstaff and Sedana AZ are just as you describe these small European cities. The Boulder traffic could be relieved with higher density housing. There also could be an expressway 5 miles east of town to take traffic out from the downtown area.

Downtown Boulder is congested and noisy; lacking the charm of a small Western town -- totally unlike Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe.

Boulder will find a way to get the traffic out of downtown, and then be just like these other places.

The fact that one must pay $1.50/hr for parking in Boulder vs. these other towns shows that Boulder is too dense.

Flagstaff considered parking meters, and even a garage, but never did anything. In Santa Fe you can park for free 5 minutes from the Plaza.

[CCCVDUR]

ComeBack_Kid
Senior Member
ComeBackKid Wrote:
"After hearing so much good about Boulder from a gazillion
magazines, and after patrolling the CD board for the last two months here, I decided it was a great time to check out CU-boulder, scope out the town, and see what "paradise in Colorado" is like...So after a drive through a snowstorm in Flagstaff, a blizzard outside of Albuquerque, and an overall 14 hours of misery in my cramped little Subaru wagon, I finally arrive in Boulder!!!
...and boy am I let down! Where's this "most livable city" of which all of the magazines speak?!"
Boulder is just as desert-like as Denver...its much more suburban than I though too, and seems just like an extension of Denver. The town is basically flat with just the creepy towers of CU hanging over the [36]... I did my community college in a california mountain town, and I wish more than ever that it had a full University because it was better than Boulder in almost every single way, at least as far as a days adventures have taken me... "

5 months later and You're right! This place is like the center of any other large city in the US such as Denver! Where's "Boulder Green" w/ all these 6 and 8 lane boulevards? There are many places I'd rather be right now including your Lake Tahoe.

"I guess I'm just a little disappointing that I drove through crazy weather, and spent gas money, and arrived to this..."

Dissapointed? How about feeling defrauded by those magazines and web sites that you mention! I should have stopped in Albuquerque or Santa Fe, at least they are honest in New Mexico and don't "over-rank" themselves in magazines! And as for the weather, it's nuts even now in May, with 40mph winds, ozone pollution from Denver, haze obscuring the Front Range, and dark clouds by 4pm every day yet no rain!

"I AM NOT trying to offend, and would LOVE to hear the pros of Boulder from anyone who knows, I want to believe I'm just getting a premature feel for the place."

I have felt the same thing for 5 days! Boulder is neither a college-town or art colony. It's an extension of Denver w/ a University next to high mountains. Please tell me how that can make the place special and win so many awards. With so much traffic and congestion, there's very little old town character to Boulder. To me, it feels like when I was in Texas.

What REALLY gets me upset is that Boulder is neither Artistic or Bohemian - when compared to Santa Fe or Sedona, for example!

Its also not a laid back place like Flagstaff. Flagstaff/Sedona have MUCH better mountain biking w/o Pollution from Denver. Boulder drivers are rude and inconsiderate to Tourists going slow through downtown Boulder.

I vote Flagstaff, Sedona, and Santa Fe as the three top SW "college-art-mountain" towns...I love Lake Tahoe, too. Of the three, Santa Fe has the lowest unemployment, highest wages, but good luck getting the locals to hire you...

[Hipchik]

"What REALLY gets me upset is that Boulder is neither Artistic or Bohemian - when compared to Santa Fe or Sedona, for example!"

You are upset about that? Wow. All I have to say is... thank goodness! Boulder is not a Santa Fe or Sedona wannabe. If you don't "get" Boulder it is obviously NOT the place for you. [mod cut]

[CCCVDUR]

Originally Posted by Hipchik

"What REALLY gets me upset is that Boulder is neither Artistic or Bohemian - when compared to Santa Fe or Sedona, for example!"

You are upset about that? Wow. All I have to say is... thank goodness! Boulder is not a Santa Fe or Sedona wannabe. If you don't "get" Boulder it is obviously NOT the place for you. [mod cut]

[mod cut]

Richard Florida ranked Boulder w/ a Bohemian Score of 201, the highest of any US city. I see 110, closer to cities in the Midwest.

Santa Fe, NM was ranked by a Canadian study (not Florida) with the Highest Bohemian score in North America.

Boulder doesn't provide the inspiration to do the types of creative work that I do. One feels emotionally down here, in a basin surrounded by high imposing mountains obscured by haze and ferocious winds. It's a "yang" energy environment vs. a "yin" energy environment. Scientists would do very well here and indeed they do.

Anyone else with similar thoughts?

[sectachrome]

I think Boulder isnt for you. Thats fine. Lots of people like it. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean everyone else is wrong about it. I like that Boulder is like a small city. If it was really like a small quiet mountain town I probably wouldnt like it. I just moved from the east coast from a suburb of Philly. The traffic, driving, and density all seem tame to me. Then again, Denver doesnt really feel like a big city to me either. I dont agree at all that you feel "emotionally down" here. I feel just the opposite everytime I look at the mountains. You are too attached to labels other people have given it. Youve come and experienced it for yourself now, like it or leave it.