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Old 08-12-2010, 10:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
There's no question that boxing has it's issues to deal with. It has always had a shady side to it, from the early days when it was controlled by the mob, to the shady promoters of today like King and Arum.

The Olympic scoring has long been debated and argued. I agree, the scoring system sucks, and I'm not sure what it will take for the IOC to convince the powers that be that there system is flawed. Currently, in order for a punch to be scored for a fighter, 3 of the 5 judges at ringside must simultaneouly push a button within a one second window in order for that punch to be scored. If they simply allowed more time it would probably help to eliminate a lot of the challenges and controversy.

Right now the biggest controversy I see with pro boxing is allowing the elite champions to make their own fights and hand pick their opponents. There are also way too many sanctioning bodies. Go back to one champion per weight division and it will be much more competitive. As with anything else, money is the motivator. For now, I have to say, MMA has helped to make boxing more competitive. It woke the promoters up and they've been making better fights that fans want to see in the last ten years.
I agree with all of what you just wrote.

Unfortunately I cannot find the article but they talked about how the IOC was really putting pressure on boxing after the Koreans cheated RJ and other issues over the years brought matters to a head. The IOC was wayyyy less than impressed by the current scoring system you mentioned above and has basically been threatening boxing with removal. This might just be to light a fire under them.....all I'm saying is that it would be a *huge* blow to boxing if they got removed, however unlikely?

So much politics at the olympic level though that removing boxing would only be done if enough countries felt they couldn't compete in boxing and could replace it with a sport the dominated at lol. Just like how the US pushed snowboarding in the olympics among many other examples lol.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
10,164 posts, read 20,706,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
obscure title fight? um last i checked it was for a title in one of YOUR suggest 4 governing bodies. one of the 4 YOU claim to be the only true governing bodies of the sport, so is it an obscure title fight or is it a legit true MAJOR title fight. if the fight i posted was like say the "NORTH AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF SEMI DECENT BOXERS" or NAASDB (say it in your head its kinda funny HA) then sure it would be obscure. you are putting on the same page as the titles toney has that you say are not "legit" because they are not one of the 4 main ones. so which is it?

that TITLE fight had around 8300 people. anderson silva vs chael sonnen had about 13k in a very similar venue both in vegas. the legacy fights here in houston 2 weeks ago (where 2 of our students retained their belts) had about 7k in attendance. now that is an obscure title fight.

as for kimbo fans, you said follow the forums and you will see kimbo fans, we are talking about the real fans, and the fighters out there on the forums, not the people who think it might be cool to go to a ufc fight and cheer on the big half bald, funky shaving guy who knocked some guys eye out in a back yard fight. sure there will be a lot of those type of people out there, just as there where for mike tyson, just like there are for mayweather ever since he got paid some stupid money to go on the WWE and fight a 7 ft tall guy. talk about freak show. you see it doesnt mater what sport it is, they all have a shtick. they all have the freak shows.
The title fight was obscure in most die hard boxing fans eyes because it was between a guy who is now past his prime and a guy who at best is a B rate fighter. Niether is a huge fan draw, yet it still sold aboput 200K PPV. That said, it was still a competitive and entertaining fight, which is the bottom line. Those 8,300 fans got their money's worth. In some cases they don't, but boxing has done a better job at matching up competitive fights. Anderson Silva is arguably the best MMA fighter and top draw so of course his fight will sell more tickets. A better comparison would be against Manny or Floyd, not Marquez and Diaz. Manny and Floyd still outsell any PPV event. Hell, Manny vs Clottey sold 50K+ seats and 1.6 million PPV buys, and Clottey wasn't even a household name. You can also bet that Marquez and Diaz saw a bigger percentage of that PPV money than Silva and Sonnen did. Why are guys like Silva willing to accept much shorter money? Because they could never cut it in boxing, otherwise they would be boxing for the big money, not scrapping for short money.
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
10,164 posts, read 20,706,562 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I agree with all of what you just wrote.

Unfortunately I cannot find the article but they talked about how the IOC was really putting pressure on boxing after the Koreans cheated RJ and other issues over the years brought matters to a head. The IOC was wayyyy less than impressed by the current scoring system you mentioned above and has basically been threatening boxing with removal. This might just be to light a fire under them.....all I'm saying is that it would be a *huge* blow to boxing if they got removed, however unlikely?

So much politics at the olympic level though that removing boxing would only be done if enough countries felt they couldn't compete in boxing and could replace it with a sport the dominated at lol. Just like how the US pushed snowboarding in the olympics among many other examples lol.
You're absolutely right, politics is hurting the Olympics, compound that with increasing drug scandals, boycotts, and controversies, and I wonder about the future of the Olympics.
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Old 08-13-2010, 04:02 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,017,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
The title fight was obscure in most die hard boxing fans eyes because it was between a guy who is now past his prime and a guy who at best is a B rate fighter. Niether is a huge fan draw, yet it still sold aboput 200K PPV. That said, it was still a competitive and entertaining fight, which is the bottom line. Those 8,300 fans got their money's worth. In some cases they don't, but boxing has done a better job at matching up competitive fights. Anderson Silva is arguably the best MMA fighter and top draw so of course his fight will sell more tickets. A better comparison would be against Manny or Floyd, not Marquez and Diaz. Manny and Floyd still outsell any PPV event. Hell, Manny vs Clottey sold 50K+ seats and 1.6 million PPV buys, and Clottey wasn't even a household name. You can also bet that Marquez and Diaz saw a bigger percentage of that PPV money than Silva and Sonnen did. Why are guys like Silva willing to accept much shorter money? Because they could never cut it in boxing, otherwise they would be boxing for the big money, not scrapping for short money.

LMAO you are sooo right, anderson is by far the top draw in mma.

come on man anderson is THE lowest drawing champion in mma. lesnar, gsp toping them all, with the mix at 205 and bj penn (not the champ now but will be again by the end of the month) following suit. anderson trends behind all of these guys. i have not seen the 2009-10 numbers but as of 2008 he was listed as 9th on the list of top single fighter draws in the ufc. he also averaged more then twice what the marquez/diaz fight sold.

i see you fall back to the ONLY 2 fighters who can sell a fight in all of boxing. are you getting it yet?

some rough and rounded numbers:
as for the money marquez/diaz made, lets do a little math. last i checked marquez was getting around 250k purse, this is about the same as anderson, give or take $25000-50000. so now if the marquez sold 200k ppvs at an average price of $50 per (averaged 50/50 between HD and SD buys) that comes to $10,000,000 total ppv buys. now 50% of that goes to PPV/HBO and the other 50 will be divided between the fights on the card. so provided the undercard fighters got ZERO from ppv that means the 2 fighters would split the other 5 mil by how ever their contract decided. now marquez was the bigger draw so he might have gotten 60% giving him $3,000,000 as his portion of the PPV buys. so a total payout of 3.25 mil, not a bad pay day.

now ufc 117 sold ABOUT 1 mil ppv buys at a similar ppv price so that would come to 50 million in total sales. (5 times the boxing match for the 9th lowest drawing fighter in the ufc and the lowest champ carrying a fairly low key card). now 50% goes to PPV so that leaves 25 mil to the ufc and the fighters. now the ufc keeps the actual numbers completely under wraps so im speculating mostly on this part. my best guess is the ufc gets 50% of whats left or 12.5 mil. that leaves 12.5 mil to the fighters and assuming the bulk of that goes to the top 2 fighters (i know a couple others have ppv% but very low. so take 25% of whats left for the lower fighters leaving 75% to the headliners. that leaves $9,375,000 between the headliners. now anderson being the champ and having a much higher earning value then sonnen would get at least 60% (i would bet 75% but leaving it at 60%). that 60% would equal $5,635,000. so $5,885,000 to anderson.

once again these numbers are rough and rounded and may be skewed somewhat due to the fact that the ufc keeps the PPV pay outs tight under wraps.

i can see these numbers for silva being slightly high, but considering i KNOW fedor made more then $3,000,000 from strikeforce on cbs not counting his purse and not on PPV with less viewership then the 1 mil expected from ufc 117 i dont find this number to be to far off.

so all that said my guess is anderson silva is doing just fine in mma getting paid and doesnt need boxing.

ufc 116 sold about 1.2 million ppv buys and brock probably made 3.4-4.0 million. The details on randy coutures ppv cut were released during his dispute with the UFC. he got $1 per buy on 100,000-175,000, $1.5 per buy 175,000-300,000, $2 per buy from 300,000-330,000 and $3 for all buys above 330,000. brock is assumed to have a similar or better deal. calculating for 1.2 million buys would give $3.6 million in ppv bonuses at $3 for over 330k buys, plus $400,000, $75,000 sub bonus, thats $4,075,000 and any undisclosed locker room bonuses. Matt Hughes got a $1 million locker room bonus for defeating Royce Gracie.
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
10,164 posts, read 20,706,562 times
Reputation: 19855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
LMAO you are sooo right, anderson is by far the top draw in mma.

come on man anderson is THE lowest drawing champion in mma. lesnar, gsp toping them all, with the mix at 205 and bj penn (not the champ now but will be again by the end of the month) following suit. anderson trends behind all of these guys. i have not seen the 2009-10 numbers but as of 2008 he was listed as 9th on the list of top single fighter draws in the ufc. he also averaged more then twice what the marquez/diaz fight sold.

i see you fall back to the ONLY 2 fighters who can sell a fight in all of boxing. are you getting it yet?

some rough and rounded numbers:
as for the money marquez/diaz made, lets do a little math. last i checked marquez was getting around 250k purse, this is about the same as anderson, give or take $25000-50000. so now if the marquez sold 200k ppvs at an average price of $50 per (averaged 50/50 between HD and SD buys) that comes to $10,000,000 total ppv buys. now 50% of that goes to PPV/HBO and the other 50 will be divided between the fights on the card. so provided the undercard fighters got ZERO from ppv that means the 2 fighters would split the other 5 mil by how ever their contract decided. now marquez was the bigger draw so he might have gotten 60% giving him $3,000,000 as his portion of the PPV buys. so a total payout of 3.25 mil, not a bad pay day.

now ufc 117 sold ABOUT 1 mil ppv buys at a similar ppv price so that would come to 50 million in total sales. (5 times the boxing match for the 9th lowest drawing fighter in the ufc and the lowest champ carrying a fairly low key card). now 50% goes to PPV so that leaves 25 mil to the ufc and the fighters. now the ufc keeps the actual numbers completely under wraps so im speculating mostly on this part. my best guess is the ufc gets 50% of whats left or 12.5 mil. that leaves 12.5 mil to the fighters and assuming the bulk of that goes to the top 2 fighters (i know a couple others have ppv% but very low. so take 25% of whats left for the lower fighters leaving 75% to the headliners. that leaves $9,375,000 between the headliners. now anderson being the champ and having a much higher earning value then sonnen would get at least 60% (i would bet 75% but leaving it at 60%). that 60% would equal $5,635,000. so $5,885,000 to anderson.

once again these numbers are rough and rounded and may be skewed somewhat due to the fact that the ufc keeps the PPV pay outs tight under wraps.

i can see these numbers for silva being slightly high, but considering i KNOW fedor made more then $3,000,000 from strikeforce on cbs not counting his purse and not on PPV with less viewership then the 1 mil expected from ufc 117 i dont find this number to be to far off.

so all that said my guess is anderson silva is doing just fine in mma getting paid and doesnt need boxing.

ufc 116 sold about 1.2 million ppv buys and brock probably made 3.4-4.0 million. The details on randy coutures ppv cut were released during his dispute with the UFC. he got $1 per buy on 100,000-175,000, $1.5 per buy 175,000-300,000, $2 per buy from 300,000-330,000 and $3 for all buys above 330,000. brock is assumed to have a similar or better deal. calculating for 1.2 million buys would give $3.6 million in ppv bonuses at $3 for over 330k buys, plus $400,000, $75,000 sub bonus, thats $4,075,000 and any undisclosed locker room bonuses. Matt Hughes got a $1 million locker room bonus for defeating Royce Gracie.
Thanks for admitting that the WWE wrestler known as Lesnar with only 5 fights to his resume is the biggest MMA PPV draw. Proving once again how difficult it is take a sport seriously when Silva who is arguably the most talented MMA fighter can't draw the same numbers as Lesnar, the freak show.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:49 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,017,224 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Thanks for admitting that the WWE wrestler known as Lesnar with only 5 fights to his resume is the biggest MMA PPV draw. Proving once again how difficult it is take a sport seriously when Silva who is arguably the most talented MMA fighter can't draw the same numbers as Lesnar, the freak show.

try again........

anderson is the lowest draw because he has ZERO personality. he claims to not speak english and needs a translator all the while speaking english just fine when he wants to.

people dont like guys who have no personality, and who dance around and avoid getting hit while ending fights in less them 1 round. if he had a persona he might attract viewers. do you REALLY think a guy like motor mouth would draw as many viewers as he does if he kept his mouth shut and just fought? HELL NO!


so i say again..... TRY AGAIN!
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
10,164 posts, read 20,706,562 times
Reputation: 19855
Quote:
Originally Posted by rigas View Post
try again........

anderson is the lowest draw because he has ZERO personality. he claims to not speak english and needs a translator all the while speaking english just fine when he wants to.

people dont like guys who have no personality, and who dance around and avoid getting hit while ending fights in less them 1 round. if he had a persona he might attract viewers. do you REALLY think a guy like motor mouth would draw as many viewers as he does if he kept his mouth shut and just fought? HELL NO!


so i say again..... TRY AGAIN!
Mayweather would indeed have more fans if he kept his mouth shut. That's why so many people buy his fights...for his opponents, who they are hoping will break his jaw. On the other hand, he couldn't get away with being a cocky loud mouth if he didn't have the talent to back it up. That's the difference between him and a guy like Edison Miranda, who runs his mouth but get's his ass handed to him. Ali was an example of someone who ran his mouth, and boxing fans either loved him or hated him but either way he sold fights because they either came to see him win or came to see him get KO'd. But he had the talent to back up his mouth. Your MMA boys are long on image and talk, short on talent with a few exception like Couture and Hughes.

All the most popular fighters are also humble. They talk with their fists. They are respected for their skill and/or heart in the ring. Throughout history fighters like Robinson, Hagler, Hearns, Chavez, De La Hoya, Manny, and dozens of other fan favorites were humble guys who fans loved and respected for their skill. Even a guy like Gatti who wasn't a top tier fighter had a huge fan base because he was an exciting fighter.

The same reason MMA fans knock boxing is the same reason that guys like you knock Silva...you have short attention spans and you want to be entertained by Carnies and human pitbulls. Nothing wrong with that, but please don't tell us that boxing is dying. MMA and boxing are two different animals, with their own fanbases. While there are some crossover fans, boxing will never die.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:08 PM
 
Location: spring tx
7,912 posts, read 10,017,224 times
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there is no point in this conversation as you apparently dont comprehend the conversation.

i never said mayweather would have less FANS but i did say he would have less VIEWERS. im not a huge boxing fan but i do view it from time to time. i enjoy watching boxing classics, dont really care for most of the fighters today or even back to the early 1990s. there is a difference between fan and viewer.

i knock silva because he was at one time a humble fighter, and looked to finish fights (kinda the whole point right?), i dont like the way he lies and the way his manager talks for him yet doesnt translate what he says but makes it "sound good". when silva came into the ufc i called that he would be champ quickly and for a long time. i know potential generally speaking, but then i like fighters would dont dance around the cage and stay away from the opponent for 5 rounds. i knock GSP the same way, dont like his style and i dont like his attitude, he has changed over the years. im not a matt hughes fan because he is just a big POS but then thats a whole other story. i like randy but i am not impressed with his style or his record. i think he is over rated but still good enough to beat an over weight, 40 something boxer as long as he plays his game. i dont like brock but i respect his ability and the fact that he has more heart then maybe anyone in the biz. i dont like brock because he is a big douchbag but he is a beast and has more potential then maybe anyone short of jon jones. i liked carwin but judgement is out pending the potential roid scandal about to hit the fan.

it was a really good try with the whole "short attention span" bs, next time why not come right out and call me an a**hole for passing on the truth and turning your ideas against you to prove my point.

and with that iwill say good night now.
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Old 08-16-2010, 08:39 AM
 
1 posts, read 1,172 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
UFC is a fly-by-night "sport", and i do use the term sport lightly in this case, and i think itll die off soon enough. People will come back to boxing because it is a great sport, ran (for the most part) correct. UFC is animals fighting animals, and there is only so much you can watch of that crap.
The Sport is called MMA not UFC and its not Animals fighting animals because animals fight with claws and teeth. You should look the sport up before you talk down on it
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Old 08-21-2010, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Mequon, WI
8,275 posts, read 22,994,729 times
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Again, MMA aka Bar Fight.

I watch Boxing as much as I can and follow the sport online for fights I cannot see. Boxing is a nitch sport and probably will never return to the status it had back in the day. Boxing needs a new younger exciting class of boxers to attract people who are too busy watching Idol.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wpsm-pacu6M/0.jpg (broken link)
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