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Come on, dude. You're tap dancing and trying to rationalize. If it's cool for Manny to fight smaller guys, then it's cool for Floyd to do so also. Like you said, if they agree to it, then that's on them, obviously that fighter feels that they can perform just as well at whatever the weight is. And just like you mentioned those guys were chasing Pacquiao, it's also the same for Floyd. Those guys were chasing him; they wanted the money, the spotlight and the chance to erase that 0. Sometimes we're damned by our own words, but as the saying goes, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Come on, dude. You're tap dancing and trying to rationalize. If it's cool for Manny to fight smaller guys, then it's cool for Floyd to do so also. Like you said, if they agree to it, then that's on them, obviously that fighter feels that they can perform just as well at whatever the weight is. And just like you mentioned those guys were chasing Pacquiao, it's also the same for Floyd. Those guys were chasing him; they wanted the money, the spotlight and the chance to erase that 0. Sometimes we're damned by our own words, but as the saying goes, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
Come on, dude. You're tap dancing and trying to rationalize. If it's cool for Manny to fight smaller guys, then it's cool for Floyd to do so also. Like you said, if they agree to it, then that's on them, obviously that fighter feels that they can perform just as well at whatever the weight is. And just like you mentioned those guys were chasing Pacquiao, it's also the same for Floyd. Those guys were chasing him; they wanted the money, the spotlight and the chance to erase that 0. Sometimes we're damned by our own words, but as the saying goes, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
exactly..Manny was a 135lb who moved up to fight Hatton..he fought Marquez at 130 and 135 were they both were..
Um no, not exactly. St. Manny had a 145lb. catch weight fight before facing Hatton. Currently, he's making JMM come up to a catch weight to fight him next month.
Marquez will enter the ring at the same catch weight which was agreed upon with his fight with Mayweather...144. Marquez came in at 142 which is close to his walking around weight. Both Marquez and Manny will enter the ring very close to their respective walking around weight. This is not a mismatch to the same proportions as the Marquez/Mayweather fight in which Floyd couldn't even make weight and entered the ring at least ten pounds heavier.
Marquez will enter the ring at the same catch weight which was agreed upon with his fight with Mayweather...144.
Never said otherwise. However, some folks want to somehow give St. Manny a pass for making JMM come up to 144. Freddie Roach seems pretty adamant that Pacquiao is a welterweight now, so it's just amusing that one welterweight can agree to fight a guy at a catchweight and gets criticized for it yet another welterweight can agree to fight the same guy at the same catchweight and it's A-OK.
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Marquez came in at 142 which is close to his walking around weight.
How do you know what his walking weight is? In any event, it would appear that he unofficially weighed 148 lbs. for the Mayweather fight: Mayweather should be the heavier boxer in the ring, but refused to step on HBO's unofficial scales before the match. As a guess, Marquez' trainer, Nacho Beristain, thinks that Mayweather will be entering the ring at 152 pounds. Marquez unofficially rehydrated to 148 pounds approaching match time. number1contender.net - The Latest . . . - Recap of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. vs. Juan Manuel*Marquez
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This is not a mismatch to the same proportions as the Marquez/Mayweather fight in which Floyd couldn't even make weight and entered the ring at least ten pounds heavier.
Not 15 anymore, eh? In any event, that's your opinion, but alas there is no proof to support it. You can speculate till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. I mean if you want to talk about something, where was your outrage when Victor Ortiz came into the ring 14 lbs. heavier than Mayweather for their bout? I mean, it'd irrelevant because Ortiz was able to weigh 147 at the official weigh in and that's all that he was required to do.
It doesn't make much sense though. Mayweather only rehydrated up to ~150lbs. for the Ortiz fight which is not surprising because that's what he's usually at for his welterweight fights. Hell, that's where he was at for his light middleweight fight against ODLH. So he's ~150lbs. when fighting bigger guys like ODLH and Ortiz, but according to you he decides to balloon up to 160lbs+ when fighting the smaller JMM? Like I said, it doesn't make much sense.
Never said otherwise. However, some folks want to somehow give St. Manny a pass for making JMM come up to 144. Freddie Roach seems pretty adamant that Pacquiao is a welterweight now, so it's just amusing that one welterweight can agree to fight a guy at a catchweight and gets criticized for it yet another welterweight can agree to fight the same guy at the same catchweight and it's A-OK
How is Manny making Marquez do anything? Marquez is begging for this rematch and he's getting it against the Welterweight champ. If Manny doesn't give it to him then he's accused of ducking him. Can't win either way.
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How do you know what his walking weight is? In any event, it would appear that he unofficially weighed 148 lbs. for the Mayweather fight: Mayweather should be the heavier boxer in the ring, but refused to step on HBO's unofficial scales before the match. As a guess, Marquez' trainer, Nacho Beristain, thinks that Mayweather will be entering the ring at 152 pounds. Marquez unofficially rehydrated to 148 pounds approaching match time. number1contender.net - The Latest . . . - Recap of Floyd Mayweather, Jr. vs. Juan Manuel*Marquez
Yep, Marquez hydrated to 148 and Mayweather still looked way bigger. I'm not alone in my observation. Marquez is naturally bigger than Manny, so I'm not sure why you think he's at a disadvantage. He fought his last fight at 140, it's not as though he's coming up 20 pounds to fight him. FWIW, Manny started out as a light flyweight at 107 lbs., Marquez started out as a featherweight at 126. Do the math.
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Not 15 anymore, eh? In any event, that's your opinion, but alas there is no proof to support it. You can speculate till the cows come home, but at the end of the day, it means nothing. I mean if you want to talk about something, where was your outrage when Victor Ortiz came into the ring 14 lbs. heavier than Mayweather for their bout? I mean, it'd irrelevant because Ortiz was able to weigh 147 at the official weigh in and that's all that he was required to do
I'm not outraged over Mayweather coming in heavier than Marquez, Juan is a big boy and asked for the fight and accepted the terms. Ortiz walks around at about 165+, so he has to drop a good deal of weight to fight at 147 or 154, but that's his choice. I noticed you didn't blink at Margarito coming in almost 17 pounds heavier than Manny in their fight.
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It doesn't make much sense though. Mayweather only rehydrated up to ~150lbs. for the Ortiz fight which is not surprising because that's what he's usually at for his welterweight fights. Hell, that's where he was at for his light middleweight fight against ODLH. So he's ~150lbs. when fighting bigger guys like ODLH and Ortiz, but according to you he decides to balloon up to 160lbs+ when fighting the smaller JMM? Like I said, it doesn't make much sense
Again, I'm not alone in my observation that Floyd entered the ring noticeably larger than Marquez since the weigh in. Take it up with most of the boxing writers, analysts, and extended community if you think I'm making it up to trivialize Floyd's victory.
How is Manny making Marquez do anything? Marquez is begging for this rematch and he's getting it against the Welterweight champ. If Manny doesn't give it to him then he's accused of ducking him. Can't win either way.
How was Mayweather "making" him do anything? Just like he was begging for a rematch with St. Manny (and for the record, I'd be begging for a rematch too if I had been robbed in the previous fight), he also chased Floyd. As I said earlier, he wanted the big payday, the bright lights and the prestige that would come had he pulled off the upset. Nobody had him at gunpoint to sign the contract and he even made an extra $600K for doing absolutely nothing! Yet Floyd is apparently derided for fighting him, but Pacquiao isn't.
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Marquez is naturally bigger than Manny, so I'm not sure why you think he's at a disadvantage. He fought his last fight at 140, it's not as though he's coming up 20 pounds to fight him.
As TxHustla correctly noted earlier in the thread, JMM has not shown that he can be effective over 140lbs. Pacquiao on the other hand obviously has. All the same, if JMM loses, I certainly won't be using that as any kind of excuse. If he loses, it'll be because St. Manny was the better fighter that night. Either that or shady scoring (again) .
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I noticed you didn't blink at Margarito coming in almost 17 pounds heavier than Manny in their fight.
Nope. Why would I? Team Pacquiao obviously knew that Margacheato would be the physically bigger man in the fight and accepted it all the same. Plus, as you've correctly noted before, draining all of that weight to make the official weigh in then adding it back overnight isn't always an advantage.
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Again, I'm not alone in my observation that Floyd entered the ring noticeably larger than Marquez since the weigh in. Take it up with most of the boxing writers, analysts, and extended community if you think I'm making it up to trivialize Floyd's victory.
It's neither here nor there at this point, but I was just asking what the logic was. That hasn't been his M.O. in the past even against guys comparable in size to him as well as fighters physically bigger than him, so I question why he would feel the need to suddenly employ such a tactic against a physically smaller man, that's all.
How was Mayweather "making" him do anything? Just like he was begging for a rematch with St. Manny (and for the record, I'd be begging for a rematch too if I had been robbed in the previous fight), he also chased Floyd. As I said earlier, he wanted the big payday, the bright lights and the prestige that would come had he pulled off the upset. Nobody had him at gunpoint to sign the contract and he even made an extra $600K for doing absolutely nothing! Yet Floyd is apparently derided for fighting him, but Pacquiao isn't
Please, Marquez wasn't robbed. He came out on the losing end of a very close fight that could have gone either way. Floyd is derided for fighting Marquez because he continues to avoid bigger, younger, stronger opponents while taking on safe fights and never risking it against dangerous opponents. I would also argue that De La Hoya was robbed against Mayweather, but at least DLH is classy enough to let it go and enjoy his millions.
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As TxHustla correctly noted earlier in the thread, JMM has not shown that he can be effective over 140lbs. Pacquiao on the other hand obviously has. All the same, if JMM loses, I certainly won't be using that as any kind of excuse. If he loses, it'll be because St. Manny was the better fighter that night. Either that or shady scoring (again)
So what is Manny supposed to do, drop another 7 pounds in muscle weight to give JMM another shot? Floyd certainly didn't drop to 140 to fight JMM at his best. Why the double standard?
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Nope. Why would I? Team Pacquiao obviously knew that Margacheato would be the physically bigger man in the fight and accepted it all the same. Plus, as you've correctly noted before, draining all of that weight to make the official weigh in then adding it back overnight isn't always an advantage
Correct, team Manny took a risk, can't say the same for Floyd and Co. who passed on an 8 million dollar payday so he wouldn't have to fight Margarito. This was back when 8 million would have been Floyd's biggest payday to date. He has no balls, and his actions speak louder than his classless words.
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It's neither here nor there at this point, but I was just asking what the logic was. That hasn't been his M.O. in the past even against guys comparable in size to him as well as fighters physically bigger than him, so I question why he would feel the need to suddenly employ such a tactic against a physically smaller man, that's all
He's not employing any tactic. He's the money fighter, he's the champ, Marquez is the one asking for the fight...since when does the champ have to accomodate the challenger? This reminds me of when Roy Jones was champ at 168 and all those Euro-cowards demanded he come to Europe to give them a title shot. Champions don't need to cater to challengers.
Please, Marquez wasn't robbed. He came out on the losing end of a very close fight that could have gone either way.
I'd say that's arguable, but ok, that's a fair enough statement.
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Floyd is derided for fighting Marquez because he continues to avoid bigger, younger, stronger opponents
Like Victor Ortiz?
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I would also argue that De La Hoya was robbed against Mayweather, but at least DLH is classy enough to let it go and enjoy his millions.
Please. Oscar whined after he lost to Trinidad. He whined after losing to Mosley. He whined after losing to Mayweather. If whining=classy, then I guess your assessment would be correct. Also trying to make that argument that Oscar was robbed against Mayweather is a lot weaker of an argument that Marquez was robbed against Pacquiao in their second fight considering that Floyd had more punches landed and more than doubled Oscar in connect percentage. Marquez-Pacquiao II on the other hand: CompuBox Final Stats: Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Manny Pacquiao
Of course, stats don't always tell the whole story in any sport so I'm glad that JMM at least has a chance to try to earn himself some redemption.
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So what is Manny supposed to do, drop another 7 pounds in muscle weight to give JMM another shot? Floyd certainly didn't drop to 140 to fight JMM at his best. Why the double standard?
No double standard. I wasn't suggesting that Pacquiao should drop to 140. You questioned why I thought JMM would be at a disadvantage. I answered the question, simple as that.
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Correct, team Manny took a risk, can't say the same for Floyd and Co. who passed on an 8 million dollar payday so he wouldn't have to fight Margarito. This was back when 8 million would have been Floyd's biggest payday to date. He has no balls, and his actions speak louder than his classless words.
Good for Team Manny. Of course, Team Manny passed on Margacheato a couple of years back too right after he had beaten de la Hoya into retirement. But hey props to Manny for fighting him after he had been suspended for more than a year and then coming back and then looking rather pedestrian in his tune up bout.
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He's not employing any tactic. He's the money fighter, he's the champ, Marquez is the one asking for the fight...since when does the champ have to accomodate the challenger? This reminds me of when Roy Jones was champ at 168 and all those Euro-cowards demanded he come to Europe to give them a title shot. Champions don't need to cater to challengers.
Eh? I was talking about Mayweather, not Pacquiao so I'm not sure where you're coming from...
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In any event, it would appear that he unofficially weighed 148 lbs. for the Mayweather fight: Mayweather should be the heavier boxer in the ring, but refused to step on HBO's unofficial scales before the match. As a guess, Marquez' trainer, Nacho Beristain, thinks that Mayweather will be entering the ring at 152 pounds. Marquez unofficially rehydrated to 148 pounds approaching match time. 
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