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Old 06-11-2013, 11:09 AM
 
293 posts, read 213,094 times
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Amazing how some people refuse to admit the obvious ... Pretty Boy just has superior boxing skills, athleticism, and ring savvy.

That's why his record is so pretty ... 44-0-0.

Doesn't matter who's in there with him ... PB finds a way to WIN...
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 505,120 times
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Sorry, but you can't compare Jordan and Sanders in this...two entirely different sports with different criteria. No one was going to be punching Jordan in the face and beating his ass all over the court if he chose to stay in the game. Emmitt Smith wasn't going to put a thrashing on Sanders on the 50 yard line.
True, it's difficult to compare athletes across different sports. By that same token, it's difficult to compare athletes from vastly different eras as well.

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I recall Mayweather's sorry excuse for ducking Mosley for so long "You mean Mosley who has four losses on his record? That Mosley? Why should I give a fight to a guy who has four losses on his record?" Of course that didn't stop him from fighting the likes of Gatti with six losses or Baldomir with nine losses.
And I recall Shane's sorry excuse for ducking Mayweather. He wanted to get his tooth fixed and go on 'vacation' (strange how nobody called him out for supposedly wanting to spend time with his family). It's all about ego. When Shane was more popular and had the bigger name he blew Floyd off. When the tables were turned, Floyd returned the favor. Turnabout is always fair play IMHO.

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How do you know that Mayweather was only four pounds heavier than Marquez on the night of the fight? He refused to be weighed on fight night. Do you have special access to his entourage of flunkies?
Officially he was four pounds heavier. Anything beyond that, neither you nor I can say with any authority.

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Paint this any way you want Evan, bottom line is, your boy has handpicked his opposition since the Corrales fight. Analysts and sportscasters have even called him out on it, and anytime he's backed into a corner he lashes out like a spoiled child throwing tantrums.
And Freddie roach is on record talking about they've handpicked opponents. You don't think Rios is handpicked to give Manny a spectacular knockout win? Yet he always gets a pass. Why is that?

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You and I both know how score cards work, and Floyd got a gift on some of those wide margins being scored in the Cotto fight. I'm sure you believe that Bradley soundly defeated Pacquiao too, talk about gulping down hateraide.
Even if the scorecards in the cotto-Mayweather fight were off by a point or so, it didn't make any difference. He won convincingly. There was no "squeaking by". After the fight even cotto had no problem admitting that Floyd clearly won, he was just miffed by the margin.

As far as the Bradley-Pacquiao fight, I think Manny won easily. I've never said otherwise. I just thought it was karma for at least one of those decisions that Manny got against JMM.

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I'm not talking up Rios, but I am saying that he will be a legit test to see if Manny is back in the game mentally. Physically he has all the tools to wipe the ring with Rios, but we don't know if he has been affected mentally by his KO loss.
Between the two, I think Mike Alvarado would've been a better test as he throws with bad intentions, but also uses more movement. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the fight and will likely order it.



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Old 06-12-2013, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,035,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan702 View Post
True, it's difficult to compare athletes across different sports. By that same token, it's difficult to compare athletes from vastly different eras as well.



And I recall Shane's sorry excuse for ducking Mayweather. He wanted to get his tooth fixed and go on 'vacation' (strange how nobody called him out for supposedly wanting to spend time with his family). It's all about ego. When Shane was more popular and had the bigger name he blew Floyd off. When the tables were turned, Floyd returned the favor. Turnabout is always fair play IMHO.



Officially he was four pounds heavier. Anything beyond that, neither you nor I can say with any authority.



And Freddie roach is on record talking about they've handpicked opponents. You don't think Rios is handpicked to give Manny a spectacular knockout win? Yet he always gets a pass. Why is that?



Even if the scorecards in the cotto-Mayweather fight were off by a point or so, it didn't make any difference. He won convincingly. There was no "squeaking by". After the fight even cotto had no problem admitting that Floyd clearly won, he was just miffed by the margin.

As far as the Bradley-Pacquiao fight, I think Manny won easily. I've never said otherwise. I just thought it was karma for at least one of those decisions that Manny got against JMM.



Between the two, I think Mike Alvarado would've been a better test as he throws with bad intentions, but also uses more movement. Regardless, I'm looking forward to the fight and will likely order it.



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A fighter asking for a fight to be postponed a couple of months to have some dental work done is not nearly as suspect as someone who makes an entire career of making excuses and ducking the best of the best. Mayweather was the one ducking Shane at lightweight, he also managed to avoid Stevie Johnston, Freitas, Casamayor, and fighters he should have fought when they were still in their respective prime. He's been riding that Corrales win and his undefeated record as his claim to greatness. Paulie Spadafora is undefeated too, that doesn't make him an all time great. But Floyd has an excellent PR team that knows how to appeal to the "all flash, no substance" culture of America today. He's every bit a legend as Terrell Owens and Ocho Cinco...that's about as far as I'll reach when comparing athletes of different sports.
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Old 06-12-2013, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 505,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
A fighter asking for a fight to be postponed a couple of months to have some dental work done is not nearly as suspect as someone who makes an entire career of making excuses and ducking the best of the best. Mayweather was the one ducking Shane at lightweight
{sigh} Well it's official. You've gone from biased half-truths to just making stuff up now.
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:44 AM
 
322 posts, read 446,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
A fighter asking for a fight to be postponed a couple of months to have some dental work done is not nearly as suspect as someone who makes an entire career of making excuses and ducking the best of the best. Mayweather was the one ducking Shane at lightweight, he also managed to avoid Stevie Johnston, Freitas, Casamayor, and fighters he should have fought when they were still in their respective prime. He's been riding that Corrales win and his undefeated record as his claim to greatness. Paulie Spadafora is undefeated too, that doesn't make him an all time great. But Floyd has an excellent PR team that knows how to appeal to the "all flash, no substance" culture of America today. He's every bit a legend as Terrell Owens and Ocho Cinco...that's about as far as I'll reach when comparing athletes of different sports.
I keep seeing posts about the guys that Floyd supposedly ducked at some point or another. If the list of names above are guys that you think Floyd spent time ducking then I don't know what to say. I'll start with Stevie Johnston. How can anyone logically argue that Floyd would spend time worrying about this guy when Johnston couldn't even beat Jose Luis Castillo in 2 tries? Mayweather fought Castillo twice and dominated both meetings. Yet he's supposed to be worried about Johnston???

As for Casamayor, when was Floyd supposed to fight him? By the time Casamayor got beat up by Corrales and moved out of the super featherweight division, Mayweather was already up at welterweight. You criticized him in another post for fighting JMM 2 divisions higher than his usual class but you also want to say that he ducked Casamayor? I don't get the logic.

Moving on to Freitas. Why would Floyd be compelled to fight him? Other than Casamayor, who has he beaten? Once again he is another guy who got blasted by Corrales so violently that he actually quit on his stool. But somehow he is supposed to have better luck against Mayweather. Again, I don't quite follow the logic.

The fact that these are the names that you chose to use as examples of fighters who Floyd ducked pretty much only proves that he really hasn't ducked anyone. He certainly hasn't ducked any of these clowns. All of these guys lost to fighters that Floyd manhandled in the ring... if you don't believe me look it up. You can say what you want but even if Floyd did decide to fight these guys the haters would have something to say about that. I'd be more than willing to listen to another set of fighters that he has supposedly ducked. I'm not that much of a Mayweather fan not to acknowledge legit fighters and circumstances but naming Johnston, Casamayor and Freitas as examples of fighters he ducked isn't going to get it done.
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Old 06-14-2013, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,035,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EHCT View Post
I keep seeing posts about the guys that Floyd supposedly ducked at some point or another. If the list of names above are guys that you think Floyd spent time ducking then I don't know what to say. I'll start with Stevie Johnston. How can anyone logically argue that Floyd would spend time worrying about this guy when Johnston couldn't even beat Jose Luis Castillo in 2 tries? Mayweather fought Castillo twice and dominated both meetings. Yet he's supposed to be worried about Johnston???

As for Casamayor, when was Floyd supposed to fight him? By the time Casamayor got beat up by Corrales and moved out of the super featherweight division, Mayweather was already up at welterweight. You criticized him in another post for fighting JMM 2 divisions higher than his usual class but you also want to say that he ducked Casamayor? I don't get the logic.

Moving on to Freitas. Why would Floyd be compelled to fight him? Other than Casamayor, who has he beaten? Once again he is another guy who got blasted by Corrales so violently that he actually quit on his stool. But somehow he is supposed to have better luck against Mayweather. Again, I don't quite follow the logic.

The fact that these are the names that you chose to use as examples of fighters who Floyd ducked pretty much only proves that he really hasn't ducked anyone. He certainly hasn't ducked any of these clowns. All of these guys lost to fighters that Floyd manhandled in the ring... if you don't believe me look it up. You can say what you want but even if Floyd did decide to fight these guys the haters would have something to say about that. I'd be more than willing to listen to another set of fighters that he has supposedly ducked. I'm not that much of a Mayweather fan not to acknowledge legit fighters and circumstances but naming Johnston, Casamayor and Freitas as examples of fighters he ducked isn't going to get it done.
First, Floyd did not dominate Castillo in their first meeting, he got a gift. That is widely acknowledged in boxing circles.

As for why he should fight fighter A when fighter A lost to fighter B, that's ridiculous logic. Why should Floyd fight Judah when he already lost to Baldomir? Different fighters have different styles. Just because Johnston couldn't beat Castillo (one of their matches ended in a draw) doesn't give Floyd a pass from fighting him or all of the other talent I listed. Floyd couldn't run from the lightweight division fast enough with all those dangerous opponents lurking about. Move up to 140/147 and fight a few mediocre opponents, steal a title, keep moving, then "retire" when the heat is on and there is nowhere to run in order to protect that "0" on his record. Then try to dictate terms to Manny and demand drug testing. Manny agrees to his demands in the second round of negotiations and in typical fashion he prices himself out by demanding a 70-30 split of the purse, knowing full well Manny wouldn't agree to that. Honestly, he never wanted to fight Manny, but he did put on a good show of it. Hell, his own uncle and father admitted they didn't want him fighting Manny but tried to use some drug from the 1940's as their excuse of why Manny is so dangerous. Two crackheads accusing someone else of doping, hilarious.
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Old 06-15-2013, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 505,120 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Then try to dictate terms to Manny and demand drug testing. Manny agrees to his demands in the second round of negotiations and in typical fashion he prices himself out by demanding a 70-30 split of the purse, knowing full well Manny wouldn't agree to that. Honestly, he never wanted to fight Manny, but he did put on a good show of it. Hell, his own uncle and father admitted they didn't want him fighting Manny but tried to use some drug from the 1940's as their excuse of why Manny is so dangerous. Two crackheads accusing someone else of doping, hilarious.
Why didn't Manny agree to the drug testing in the first round of negotiations? Yeah he was scared of needles (despite all kinds of tattoos), losing a teaspoon of blood would weaken him, etc. He obviously didn't want to fight Floyd, though he did put on a good show of it. While we're talking about dictating terms, let's also no forget that Team Manny had some as well like a ridiculous $10 million per pound overweight penalty, which Floyd agreed to.

It's funny that before he got KTFO by JMM, Pacquiao was allegedly offered a $40 million purse by Floyd for the fight, but declined. I bet if he was made that same offer today, Manny would agree to it before Floyd could even get all of the words out of his mouth
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,035,767 times
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...

Last edited by Coolhand68; 06-18-2013 at 08:58 AM.. Reason: double-post
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,035,767 times
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Originally Posted by Evan702 View Post
Why didn't Manny agree to the drug testing in the first round of negotiations? Yeah he was scared of needles (despite all kinds of tattoos), losing a teaspoon of blood would weaken him, etc. He obviously didn't want to fight Floyd, though he did put on a good show of it. While we're talking about dictating terms, let's also no forget that Team Manny had some as well like a ridiculous $10 million per pound overweight penalty, which Floyd agreed to.

It's funny that before he got KTFO by JMM, Pacquiao was allegedly offered a $40 million purse by Floyd for the fight, but declined. I bet if he was made that same offer today, Manny would agree to it before Floyd could even get all of the words out of his mouth
He didn't agree to Floyd's terms because he wasn't going to allow the Prince to dictate terms. It was simply a power play. Who is Floyd to come along and demand further testing than what is required? Manny didn't need him and he still doesn't. He's made plenty of money and he's still a huge PPV draw. So what happened when Manny finally gave in and called Floyd's bluff? Floyd went silent, then threw tantrums when being cornered for a response to Manny's agreement to random testing. Then, he demands a 70-30 split to price himself out. He never wanted the fight, too dangerous. Just like dodging the top lightweights of his prime.

Yep, getting KO'd is what happens when you actually lay it on the line and agree to tough fights. Something Floyd will never do. He's got to protect that precious "0" on his record. I wouldn't be surprised if he finds a way to flake out of his fight with Alvarez...hurt hand, some other flukey injury perhaps? I'll get excited about this fight when they are actually staring at one another from across the ring.

Of course the title of this thread was "Reconsidering Floyd's Greatness" and a fighter's greatness is not hinged on one opponent. That's why no one ever questions Robinson's greatness...he fought everyone and laid it all on the line. You are such a Manny-hater you fail to see the big picture. Floyd has made a career of ducking the best competition. Not just Manny, but at least a half dozen other fighters. Then, when he finally does agree to a big name fighter, it's typically when they are past their prime or damaged goods.

Along comes the HBO/Showtime producers who manage to build up the subpar opponents and make them look like valid threats. The 24/7 series does an excellent job of making B-rated fighters look like legit threats. How else can they drum up interest in a Floyd/Guerrero match? This is not just me talking, but other fans and a majority of the boxing media.
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Old 06-18-2013, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 505,120 times
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
He didn't agree to Floyd's terms because he wasn't going to allow the Prince to dictate terms. It was simply a power play. Who is Floyd to come along and demand further testing than what is required?
Who was Manny to demand a $10 million per pound weight penalty? Yet Floyd agreed to it in the interest of making the fight. Manny obviously didn't want the fight and used the drug testing to get out of it. How hilariously ironic that Manny demanded random drug testing from VADA for his fight against Rios. Talk about hypocrisy...

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Manny didn't need him and he still doesn't. He's made plenty of money and he's still a huge PPV draw.
Lmao! You either haven't been paying attention or are delusional if you actually believe that tripe. Manny needs Floyd INFINITELY more than Floyd needs him.


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Yep, getting KO'd is what happens when you actually lay it on the line and agree to tough fights. Something Floyd will never do.
Yep, Floyd fought that same tough fighter and dominated him.

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Of course the title of this thread was "Reconsidering Floyd's Greatness" and a fighter's greatness is not hinged on one opponent. That's why no one ever questions Robinson's greatness...he fought everyone and laid it all on the line.
Out of curiosity, did Sugar Ray Robinson ever retire and unretire in his career?

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I am such a Floyd-hater i fail to see the big picture.
FTFY! As I've explained to you on more than one occasion, I'm pretty blasŤ regarding Manny. What I'm not terribly fond of is many of his fans or so called fans that have come out of the woodwork. So once again, I have to ask for you to not project your thought process onto me.

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Floyd has made a career of ducking the best competition. Not just Manny, but at least a half dozen other fighters. Then, when he finally does agree to a big name fighter, it's typically when they are past their prime or damaged goods.
A number of whom Manny also felt the need to fight as well. The big picture that I see is that Floyd is the highest paid boxer in the world and one of the highest paid athletes in the world. At the end of the day, only a fool argues with success...

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Along comes the HBO/Showtime producers who manage to build up the subpar opponents and make them look like valid threats. The 24/7 series does an excellent job of making B-rated fighters look like legit threats. How else can they drum up interest in a Floyd/Guerrero match? This is not just me talking, but other fans and a majority of the boxing media.
If that's the case then it seems like HBO will be working their same magic again with Rios...


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