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Old 06-18-2013, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,010,899 times
Reputation: 18406

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Again, first round of negotiations were trumped by second and third rounds of negotiations, to which Floyd (a) went silent and (b) priced himself out of the fight.

Manny is indeed a big PPV draw, just look at the numbers. While Floyd is the highest paid athlete, Manny isn't doing too shabby at #14. He also has a much bigger fan base. He really doesn't need Floyd. I'll bet anything that Manny/Rios easily outsells Mayweather/Guerrero!

Twenty years from now no one will question Manny's contribution to the sport. He's an exciting fighter and he gives the fans their money's worth. In Floyd's last outing he was booed for the lack of engagement in a boring fight. In his fight with Cotto, when the camera flashed his image on the big screen with a bloody nose, the fans let out a roar of applause. People WANT to see him lose. He is not liked by the majority of fans.

Yes, Robinson did retire once. But he came back because he needed the money. Not because he used his retirement to duck opponents. He also had three times as many fights as Floyd when he initially retired. Trying to compare Floyd's legacy to Robinson's is futile. They don't belong in the same sentence.

You carry on as though Floyd and Manny are the only two fighters in boxing. There are plenty of other great boxers in history and coming through the current ranks. While I am a fan of Manny, he is not the end all, be all to boxing. Prior to him I was a fan of Roy Jones Jr., Marco Antonio Barrera, James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Buddy McGirt, Alexis Arguello, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, Ray Leonard etc. I also enjoyed following some of the B-rate fighters such as Gatti, Ward, Leija, Mayorga, Haugen, etc. One thing they all had in common was that they fought anyone. They didn't duck opponents, they pursued the best fights they could get, and they were exciting to watch. Even guys like Pernell Whitaker and Ali who I really didn't care for at least had balls and fought any and all opposition. They didn't leave any doubts in the minds of fans.

Floyd is a gifted athlete and a talented fighter. But he's more flash than substance. He never risked anything, or at least hasn't since his bout with Corrales over a decade ago. Twenty years from now when fans and sports analysts look back on his career there will be doubts and unanswered questions to be pondered. Robinson, who Floyd insists he is better than, is widely considered the P4P all time greatest and for good reason. Robinson, didn't leave any room for doubt on his resume.
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Old 06-18-2013, 10:39 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 503,845 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Again, first round of negotiations were trumped by second and third rounds of negotiations, to which Floyd (a) went silent and (b) priced himself out of the fight.
Sorry, but no. Just because it was your boy Manny that destroyed the first round of negotiations doesn't mean that it gets "trumped" by anything. That's more of that Coolhand 'logic' that really doesn't pass the smell test in the real world.

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Manny is indeed a big PPV draw, just look at the numbers. While Floyd is the highest paid athlete, Manny isn't doing too shabby at #14. He also has a much bigger fan base.
If Manny has a "much bigger" fan base, then why doesn't he out earn Floyd? What you're claiming doesn't seem to jive.

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He really doesn't need Floyd.
Keep telling yourself that.

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I'll bet anything that Manny/Rios easily outsells Mayweather/Guerrero!
I'll bet anything that Canelo-Mayweather easily destroys Pacquiao/Rios!

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Twenty years from now no one will question Manny's contribution to the sport. He's an exciting fighter and he gives the fans their money's worth. In Floyd's last outing he was booed for the lack of engagement in a boring fight. In his fight with Cotto, when the camera flashed his image on the big screen with a bloody nose, the fans let out a roar of applause. People WANT to see him lose.
When you're great there are always plenty of people that want to see you fall. That's nothing new.

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He is not liked by the majority of fans.
Oh, so now you're qualified to speak for the majority of fans?

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Yes, Robinson did retire once. But he came back because he needed the money. Not because he used his retirement to duck opponents. He also had three times as many fights as Floyd when he initially retired. Trying to compare Floyd's legacy to Robinson's is futile.
I was just illustrating that boxers retire and un-retire, even the boxer considered the best of all time. It's not an uncommon thing for boxers to do. So futile? Nope, just the opposite. You just confirmed my point. Thanks!

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They don't belong in the same sentence.
Your opinion and you're welcome to it.

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You carry on as though Floyd and Manny are the only two fighters in boxing. There are plenty of other great boxers in history and coming through the current ranks. While I am a fan of Manny, he is not the end all, be all to boxing. Prior to him I was a fan of Roy Jones Jr., Marco Antonio Barrera, James Toney, Evander Holyfield, Buddy McGirt, Alexis Arguello, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Tommy Hearns, Ray Leonard etc. I also enjoyed following some of the B-rate fighters such as Gatti, Ward, Leija, Mayorga, Haugen, etc. One thing they all had in common was that they fought anyone. They didn't duck opponents, they pursued the best fights they could get, and they were exciting to watch. Even guys like Pernell Whitaker and Ali who I really didn't care for at least had balls and fought any and all opposition. They didn't leave any doubts in the minds of fans.
I carry on? For one, this a thread with Mayweather in the title. Second, how often do you get involved in a thread that has nothing to do with Mayweather or Pacquiao?
I also enjoyed watching most of those guys. But they aren't currently active or at least they shouldn't still be active (RJJ, James Toney) so what's their relation to this thread?

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Floyd is a gifted athlete and a talented fighter. But he's more flash than substance. He never risked anything, or at least hasn't since his bout with Corrales over a decade ago. Twenty years from now when fans and sports analysts look back on his career there will be doubts and unanswered questions to be pondered. Robinson, who Floyd insists he is better than, is widely considered the P4P all time greatest and for good reason. Robinson, didn't leave any room for doubt on his resume.
Sorry, but ANYTIME that you step inside of a ring (or a cage for that matter), you're risking something. I can't predict the future and neither can you so I think I'll wait and let history make it's own judgments in twenty years...but that's just me.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,010,899 times
Reputation: 18406
Quote:
Sorry, but no. Just because it was your boy Manny that destroyed the first round of negotiations doesn't mean that it gets "trumped" by anything. That's more of that Coolhand 'logic' that really doesn't pass the smell test in the real world.

If Manny has a "much bigger" fan base, then why doesn't he out earn Floyd? What you're claiming doesn't seem to jive.

I'll bet anything that Canelo-Mayweather easily destroys Pacquiao/Rios!
Mayweather/Alvarez will outsell Pacquiao/Rios because Alvarez is a big draw in his own right. But that's not the fight I was comparing. If you look at overall PPV numbers Floyd and Manny are about even, which is why Floyd had no business demanding a 70-30 split. That's just chickenshyt, pricing himself out so he doesn't have to fight. Floyd knows this is the fight the fans want, but he flaked out on two out of the three negotiations. Last time they went into negotiations it was Floyd who showed his true colors.

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When you're great there are always plenty of people that want to see you fall. That's nothing new.
Really? You sound like a Patriots fan now. If your Evan logic is true then why didn't people boo other great fighters on a consistent basis?

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Oh, so now you're qualified to speak for the majority of fans?
Nope, but Google is your friend.


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I was just illustrating that boxers retire and un-retire, even the boxer considered the best of all time. It's not an uncommon thing for boxers to do. So futile? Nope, just the opposite. You just confirmed my point. Thanks!
How does that prove your point? So you're saying that comparing Floyd's accomplishments and Robinson's are valid? Man, you are more delusional than I thought.

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I carry on? For one, this a thread with Mayweather in the title. Second, how often do you get involved in a thread that has nothing to do with Mayweather or Pacquiao?
Just do a search in the boxing forum, I've contributed plenty to other boxing threads that weren't about Manny or Floyd. You just enjoy following me from thread to thread to defend Princess Mayweather. I've even gone so far as to offer some criticisms of Manny AND some praises of Floyd, though I've never seen you offer even one criticism of Floyd. You're blinded by your bias. I need to start referring to you as Evan Lampley or Evan Kellerman.
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 503,845 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Mayweather/Alvarez will outsell Pacquiao/Rios because Alvarez is a big draw in his own right. But that's not the fight I was comparing.
But it's the fight that I'm comparing. Mayweather-Guerrero probably did comparable business as Pacquiao-Bradley, a bout that Mayweather didn't even do a promotional tour for. And none of that answers the question of why didn't Pacquiao out earn Mayweather if he has a "much bigger" base as you claim. At any rate, I already knew that would be your response to try and make Canelo the draw. So please enlighten the forum as to which big number PPV events Canelo has done which support your assertion. I'll wait.

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If you look at overall PPV numbers Floyd and Manny are about even
Don't think so...

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which is why Floyd had no business demanding a 70-30 split.
When did this alleged incident even happen anyway?

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That's just chickenshyt, pricing himself out so he doesn't have to fight. Floyd knows this is the fight the fans want, but he flaked out on two out of the three negotiations. Last time they went into negotiations it was Floyd who showed his true colors.
Just add chickenshyt as Manny tanking th negotiations by claiming that he's scared of needles.



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Really? You sound like a Patriots fan now. If your Evan logic is true then why didn't people boo other great fighters on a consistent basis?
Consistent basis? I Don't even know what you're talking about on Thai one.



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Nope, but Google is your friend.
Mkay...




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How does that prove your point? So you're saying that comparing Floyd's accomplishments and Robinson's are valid? Man, you are more delusional than I thought.
No, what I said (quite clearly I might add) is that it's common for boxers, even the consensus greatest of all time, to retire and unretire.

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Just do a search in the boxing forum, I've contributed plenty to other boxing threads that weren't about Manny or Floyd.
Ok, if you say so...

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You just enjoy following me from thread to thread to defend Princess Mayweather.
Princess, lol. See when the responses get sophomoric like this, it's a tell tale sign that one's argument has no legs. Fyi, I posted in this thread first, so it appears that you followed me. I do apologize for pointing out the half truths, inaccuracies and mischaracterizations that you try to slip by at times. It's just a pet peeve of mines.

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I've even gone so far as to offer some criticisms of Manny
Lol, when was this?

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AND some praises of Floyd,
What that he's a gifted athlete? Damn, I mean even Stevie Wonder could see that.

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though I've never seen you offer even one criticism of Floyd.
Fair enough, though you have enough criticisms of the man for the both of us...and then some. Don't know if it counts as criticism or not, but I'm considering going and laying a stack on Canelo in September. I'll wait until the weigh in before deciding though.

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You're blinded by your bias.
Lol, pot, kettle...

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I need to start referring to you as Evan Lampley or Evan Kellerman.
Lmao, ok I got a pretty good chuckle out of that one. If it's all the same, I'll take Kellerman.



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Old 06-22-2013, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,010,899 times
Reputation: 18406
Well, here we are again with another standoff, neither of us budging. Tell you what, let's agree to disagree and appreciate that we are both fans of a great sport and two great athletes. No sense in trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, if these two don't fight one another soon, it's the fans who will lose out anyway. Fortunately there is an abundance of talent between 140 - 154 to make for plenty of other interesting fights.
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Old 06-23-2013, 01:38 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
519 posts, read 503,845 times
Reputation: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolhand68 View Post
Well, here we are again with another standoff, neither of us budging. Tell you what, let's agree to disagree and appreciate that we are both fans of a great sport and two great athletes.
Fair enough. One last thing that I'll note: For such a supposedly hated guy in the sport, Floyd certainly seemed to get a pretty thunderous applause when the camera flashed his picture on the big screen at the Barclays Center during the Broner-Malignaggi last night.

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No sense in trying to prove who is right and who is wrong, if these two don't fight one another soon, it's the fans who will lose out anyway.
As long as Arum is involved, I remain doubtful.
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Old 06-23-2013, 10:06 AM
 
Location: San Francisco, CA
326 posts, read 457,324 times
Reputation: 223
I will say this, I think Mayweather is easily one of the greatest defensive fighters of all time and debatably the best fighter currently in boxing today.

On the other hand, the way he retired in 2008 was sooo lame for a fighter of his caliber. Not only did he shirk a rematch with one of the only fighters who has ever been able to challenge him, but he also missed oppurtunities to fight fighters in their prime like Antonio Margarito and Miguel Cotto. He was 31 years old when he "retired" and I just think that is so lame.

If his current performance is any indicator, he clearly hasn't lost much talent over the years and I'm sure he'll do fine against Alvarez. Imagine some of the great fights (including against Pacman) that could have been made though, if Mayweather was less concerned about his legacy and more about giving the fans what they wanted.
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:05 PM
 
322 posts, read 445,584 times
Reputation: 728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan702 View Post
One last thing that I'll note: For such a supposedly hated guy in the sport, Floyd certainly seemed to get a pretty thunderous applause when the camera flashed his picture on the big screen at the Barclays Center during the Broner-Malignaggi last night.
Yep....I caught that too
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
9,369 posts, read 18,010,899 times
Reputation: 18406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan702 View Post
Fair enough. One last thing that I'll note: For such a supposedly hated guy in the sport, Floyd certainly seemed to get a pretty thunderous applause when the camera flashed his picture on the big screen at the Barclays Center during the Broner-Malignaggi last night.



As long as Arum is involved, I remain doubtful.
Well considering it was a pro Broner/Malignaggi crowd, two trash talkers with sharper tongues than skills I'm not surprised. He seems to be more popular in Brooklyn than he is in his own town of Vegas.
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Old 06-26-2013, 02:26 PM
 
Location: West of the Mississippi
162 posts, read 151,853 times
Reputation: 177
looking at the highest paid athletes list for 2012, i see pacquiao is listed #1 on espn's list.....both pacquiao and mayweather are tied at #14 on forbes list. not sure which lists are most accurate out there but i think its safe to say they are equal in their earning potential and as a ppv attraction. no reason that either or them should demand more than 50% of the purse, unless they were to fight right now seeing how floyd has a title and he's a champion.........otherwise they were equal in earning power during their failed negotiations.
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