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To be fair, what Mayweather was criticizing was the fact that Pacquiao would not fight Cotto at any weight above 145 eventhough Cotto at the time was struggling to make the 147 lb welterweight limit. In fact Cotto hasn't fought at welterweight since that fight. Also, Pacquiao even admitted that the catchweight would keep Cotto from being his best. To make matters worse Manny had no problems agreeing to fight Margarito at 150. This is why Mayweather criticized Pacquiao by saying that he still considered Cotto an undefeated fighter after Cotto's loss to Manny.
On top of all that Pacquiao's camp wouldn't negotiate a rematch with Cotto unless it was again at the 145 lb. catchweight. This is why a rematch never happened because Cotto wasn't going to agree to be handicapped by Pacquiao's contract demands again. Why would Pacquiao insist on fighting at a weight that Cotto clearly has trouble making but agree to fight a taller, bigger guy in Margarito at 150 lbs?
Meanwhile Mayweather who gets criticized for ducking everybody; fights Cotto at 154 lbs. one fight after he absolutely destroyed Margarito. That's why Mayweather called Manny out on his catchweight clauses. Manny knew he couldn't beat Cotto at his best so he would only fight him under his terms or he wouldn't fight him at all. This is the reason why Mayweather criticized him. I could see if Manny had never fought heavier guys before but he has fought many times at 147 lbs. or above. But when it came to Cotto he wouldn't even get in the same ring with him at 147 lbs. I won't even mention the rumored rehydration limits that he also puts in his contract demands. Does Manny not deserve criticism for this???
To be fair, what Mayweather was criticizing was the fact that Pacquiao would not fight Cotto at any weight above 145 eventhough Cotto at the time was struggling to make the 147 lb welterweight limit. In fact Cotto hasn't fought at welterweight since that fight. Also, Pacquiao even admitted that the catchweight would keep Cotto from being his best. To make matters worse Manny had no problems agreeing to fight Margarito at 150. This is why Mayweather criticized Pacquiao by saying that he still considered Cotto an undefeated fighter after Cotto's loss to Manny.
On top of all that Pacquiao's camp wouldn't negotiate a rematch with Cotto unless it was again at the 145 lb. catchweight. This is why a rematch never happened because Cotto wasn't going to agree to be handicapped by Pacquiao's contract demands again. Why would Pacquiao insist on fighting at a weight that Cotto clearly has trouble making but agree to fight a taller, bigger guy in Margarito at 150 lbs?
Meanwhile Mayweather who gets criticized for ducking everybody; fights Cotto at 154 lbs. one fight after he absolutely destroyed Margarito. That's why Mayweather called Manny out on his catchweight clauses. Manny knew he couldn't beat Cotto at his best so he would only fight him under his terms or he wouldn't fight him at all. This is the reason why Mayweather criticized him. I could see if Manny had never fought heavier guys before but he has fought many times at 147 lbs. or above. But when it came to Cotto he wouldn't even get in the same ring with him at 147 lbs. I won't even mention the rumored rehydration limits that he also puts in his contract demands. Does Manny not deserve criticism for this???
To be fair, what Mayweather was criticizing was the fact that Pacquiao would not fight Cotto at any weight above 145 eventhough Cotto at the time was struggling to make the 147 lb welterweight limit. In fact Cotto hasn't fought at welterweight since that fight. Also, Pacquiao even admitted that the catchweight would keep Cotto from being his best. To make matters worse Manny had no problems agreeing to fight Margarito at 150. This is why Mayweather criticized Pacquiao by saying that he still considered Cotto an undefeated fighter after Cotto's loss to Manny.
On top of all that Pacquiao's camp wouldn't negotiate a rematch with Cotto unless it was again at the 145 lb. catchweight. This is why a rematch never happened because Cotto wasn't going to agree to be handicapped by Pacquiao's contract demands again. Why would Pacquiao insist on fighting at a weight that Cotto clearly has trouble making but agree to fight a taller, bigger guy in Margarito at 150 lbs?
Meanwhile Mayweather who gets criticized for ducking everybody; fights Cotto at 154 lbs. one fight after he absolutely destroyed Margarito. That's why Mayweather called Manny out on his catchweight clauses. Manny knew he couldn't beat Cotto at his best so he would only fight him under his terms or he wouldn't fight him at all. This is the reason why Mayweather criticized him. I could see if Manny had never fought heavier guys before but he has fought many times at 147 lbs. or above. But when it came to Cotto he wouldn't even get in the same ring with him at 147 lbs. I won't even mention the rumored rehydration limits that he also puts in his contract demands. Does Manny not deserve criticism for this???
Hmm, seeing how Manny was still the smaller fighter and came all the way up from 107, I don't see how asking Cotto to come in only 2 lbs under the welterweight limit is that much to ask. It wasn't like he was asking him to come in at an entire weight class up or down as Floyd has done with many of his opponents. I'd take a catch weight over having to drain myself down or blow myself up to fight. Mayweather demanded that Marquez move up two weight classes to fight him, and he still came in the ring noticeably bigger than Marquez. So Floyd's criticism of Manny for insisting on catch weights isn't as nearly as sketchy as Floyd's insistance on other fighters coming up or dropping entire weight classes.
Came all the way up from 107???? LMAO!!! Please off of that schtick. The way you're trying to word it makes it seem like St. Manny's previous fight right before the Cotto fight was at 107 which obviously is nowhere near the truth.
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It wasn't like he was asking him to come in at an entire weight class up or down as Floyd has done with many of his opponents.
Please cite the "many" that you're referring to...if you can.
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Mayweather demanded that Marquez move up two weight classes to fight him, and he still came in the ring noticeably bigger than Marquez.
Officially he was only 4 lbs. heavier than JMM, not even a full weight class. JMM wanted the fight, he wanted the big payday and Floyd is the champ, so why shouldn't JMM come up to face him? What should Floyd have done, drain himself down to lightweight? That's just silly. Besides, in his last outing at welterweight (still only his third fight at that weight), JMM showed pretty decent power at 147
Hmm, seeing how Manny was still the smaller fighter and came all the way up from 107, I don't see how asking Cotto to come in only 2 lbs under the welterweight limit is that much to ask. It wasn't like he was asking him to come in at an entire weight class up or down as Floyd has done with many of his opponents. I'd take a catch weight over having to drain myself down or blow myself up to fight. Mayweather demanded that Marquez move up two weight classes to fight him, and he still came in the ring noticeably bigger than Marquez. So Floyd's criticism of Manny for insisting on catch weights isn't as nearly as sketchy as Floyd's insistance on other fighters coming up or dropping entire weight classes.
Look, I get that you don't like and/or respect Mayweather but I have no idea where you are getting your facts from. First of all when has Floyd ever asked anyone to come up or drop an entire weight class to fight him? If a fighter calls him out and he agrees to fight him, why should he move up or down to make the fight happen? Nobody does that (except for Cotto against Manny and he soon realized he made a mistake).
For instance when Hatton called Floyd out, was Floyd supposed to drop down in weight to make that fight happen? Ofcourse not, Hatton wanted the fight so Hatton should move up to make it happen...that's how it works. When Floyd called out Oscar he moved up to Junior Middleweight to fight him (no catchweight)... when Floyd fought Cotto he moved up to junior middleweight to fight him (no catchweight). Even when JMM wanted to see Floyd he agreed to fight him at a catchweight so that people wouldn't cry about him beating up a smaller fighter. With the exception of Alvarez, I don't see where Floyd has called someone out and then made that person move up or down to accommodate his desires. If you have any specific examples please share them. Sketchy is when you tell an opponent that you'll fight him at a max weight of 145lbs because 147lbs is too much and then 5 months later you're fighting at 147lbs. THEN...6 months after that you're fighting at 150lbs. Talk about cherry picking, I don't recall Floyd doing anything as sketchy as that.
To your point about Cotto fighting 2lbs. under the welterweight limit not being a big deal; when Cotto is having a hard time making the 147lb. wgt limit, asking him to fight 2lbs. under that IS a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal Manny wouldn't have insisted on it. I used to wrestle a long time ago and routinely had to cut weight to make a certain weight class. Trust me if you have to cut weight, 2lbs. on top of what you've already had to lose is not a simple task. In professional boxing it's even worse because there are no regulations on how low your bodyfat percentage can be or how much you dehydrate yourself. Why do you think guys are doing roadwork in 90 degree weather in a suit made out of trash bags? I've had this argument many times before and it's difficult to get people who haven't had to do it to understand how much of a difference 2 lbs. makes. Again, Manny even admitted that it was asking a lot of Cotto so that should explain all you need to know.
Last edited by EHCT; 06-13-2013 at 09:41 AM..
Reason: Sentence correction.
Came all the way up from 107???? LMAO!!! Please off of that schtick. The way you're trying to word it makes it seem like St. Manny's previous fight right before the Cotto fight was at 107 which obviously is nowhere near the truth.
Please cite the "many" that you're referring to...if you can.
Officially he was only 4 lbs. heavier than JMM, not even a full weight class. JMM wanted the fight, he wanted the big payday and Floyd is the champ, so why shouldn't JMM come up to face him? What should Floyd have done, drain himself down to lightweight? That's just silly. Besides, in his last outing at welterweight (still only his third fight at that weight), JMM showed pretty decent power at 147
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Originally Posted by EHCT
Look, I get that you don't like and/or respect Mayweather but I have no idea where you are getting your facts from. First of all when has Floyd ever asked anyone to come up or drop an entire weight class to fight him? If a fighter calls him out and he agrees to fight him, why should he move up or down to make the fight happen? Nobody does that (except for Cotto against Manny and he soon realized he made a mistake).
For instance when Hatton called Floyd out, was Floyd supposed to drop down in weight to make that fight happen? Ofcourse not, Hatton wanted the fight so Hatton should move up to make it happen...that's how it works. When Floyd called out Oscar he moved up to Junior Middleweight to fight him (no catchweight)... when Floyd fought Cotto he moved up to junior middleweight to fight him (no catchweight). Even when JMM wanted to see Floyd he agreed to fight him at a catchweight so that people wouldn't cry about him beating up a smaller fighter. With the exception of Alvarez, I don't see where Floyd has called someone out and then made that person move up or down to accommodate his desires. If you have any specific examples please share them. Sketchy is when you tell an opponent that you'll fight him at a max weight of 145lbs because 147lbs is too much and then 5 months later you're fighting at 147lbs. THEN...6 months after that you're fighting at 150lbs. Talk about cherry picking, I don't recall Floyd doing anything as sketchy as that.
To your point about Cotto fighting 2lbs. under the welterweight limit not being a big deal; when Cotto is having a hard time making the 147lb. wgt limit, asking him to fight 2lbs. under that IS a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal Manny wouldn't have insisted on it. I used to wrestle a long time ago and routinely had to cut weight to make a certain weight class. Trust me if you have to cut weight, 2lbs. on top of what you've already had to lose is not a simple task. In professional boxing it's even worse because there are no regulations on how low your bodyfat percentage can be or how much you dehydrate yourself. Why do you think guys are doing roadwork in 90 degree weather in a suit made out of trash bags? I've had this argument many times before and it's difficult to get people who haven't had to do it to understand how much of a difference 2 lbs. makes. Again, Manny even admitted that it was asking a lot of Cotto so that should explain all you need to know.
Again, Floyd didn't have to take the fight with JMM after his two year vacation hiding out from the top welters that were breathing down his neck. In typically Floyd fashion he chose someone he knew he had specific advantages over.
Offical weight means little. Ask Hopkins and Chavez Jr. about that tactic. Four pounds over the day before the fight and then how many the day of the fight? He refused to be weighed, wonder why?
Yep, JMM showed a lot of power and increased muscle mass at 147, can't imagine how that happened at the age of 39.
The thrashing that Cotto took had nothing to do with 2 lbs,. get over it. In fact, Cotto had fought at 147 for most of his fights leading right up his fight with Manny. He was 147 vs. Clottey just five months earlier. If he had to lose weight to fight Manny that was his own fault. He signed the contract well enough in advance that two pounds should not have killed him. He didn't move to 154 until after he fought Manny. Perhaps he should not have been fighting at 147 if he was having trouble making 147. The beating he took had nothing to do with 2 lbs. Manny's moving up in weight is a factor, because he was never a "natural" welter. Yet, whether he calls for a catch weight or moves up to a weight class he's still criticized.
I'm quite familiar with what it takes to make weight. I've boxed and trained amateur boxers for 17 years. Two pounds is water weight you can dry off easily before weigh in. Most fighters dry out about 10 pounds prior to weigh in to make weight. Any more than that and they shouldn't be in that weight class IMHO.
Again, Floyd didn't have to take the fight with JMM after his two year vacation hiding out from the top welters that were breathing down his neck.
Whatever, dude. Boxers retire and unretire all the time. It's not uncommon at all. Let us know when you have some actual facts to support your haterade induced theory.
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In typically Floyd fashion he chose someone he knew he had specific advantages over.
Sure thing, just like Manny does.
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Offical weight means little. Ask Hopkins and Chavez Jr. about that tactic. Four pounds over the day before the fight and then how many the day of the fight? He refused to be weighed, wonder why?
It means that's all that you, I or anyone else can say factually say for certain. Anything else is just bias and yours are obviously well known. Again, you give me a good chuckle though. Two pounds are NOTHING when it comes to Cotto against Pacquiao, but four pounds is EVERYTHING when it comes to Floyd.
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Yep, JMM showed a lot of power and increased muscle mass at 147, can't imagine how that happened at the age of 39.
He probably wised up and got on the same 'conditioning regimin' that had served Manny so well...
I'm quite familiar with what it takes to make weight. I've boxed and trained amateur boxers for 17 years. Two pounds is water weight you can dry off easily before weigh in. Most fighters dry out about 10 pounds prior to weigh in to make weight. Any more than that and they shouldn't be in that weight class IMHO.
Well, I've never set foot into a boxing ring before so I will gladly admit that you've probably forgotten more about boxing than I'll ever know. That being said, I think that Mikey Garcia would beg to differ with your point of view on this. Although to be fair, I do agree with your point that he should abandon any plans to stay at 126 and move up to 130.
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
Again, Floyd didn't have to take the fight with JMM after his two year vacation hiding out from the top welters that were breathing down his neck. In typically Floyd fashion he chose someone he knew he had specific advantages over.
The boxing and mainstream media billed this match-up was billed as the next logical fight for both fighters. Everyone was amped up to see this one. But of course after everyone saw Floyd beat the stuffing out of JMM folks want to start talking about how JMM was the much smaller guy and didn't belong in the same ring as Floyd. Show me where people were saying this BEFORE the fight. With Floyd, the haters only talk about this stuff AFTER he beats his opponent. Look at it this way, if Floyd didn't take this fight, I'm 100% sure JMM would have been just another name on the list of fighters that Floyd has supposedly ducked.
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Originally Posted by Coolhand68
Yep, JMM showed a lot of power and increased muscle mass at 147, can't imagine how that happened at the age of 39.
Funny you should mention this but continue to overlook the coincidental loss of Manny's KO power after being called out by Mayweather's camp on his alleged PED use. Before Mayweather v. Pacquiao fight negotiations; 4 stoppages in his 4 fights since moving up from super featherweight (against some impressive names I might add). Since the failed negotiations and being called out for PED use 0 stoppages, 1 robbery (courtesy of the judges at the Tim Bradley fight) and 1 power nap (courtesy of a JMM counter right-hook). However, since I have no proof either way... I'll just continue to consider this a strange set of circumstances
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