Education in Montana (Bozeman: credit, home, school districts)

[vter4ever]

I am interesting in pursing my graduate degree at MSU in education (curriculum and instruction) and had a couple of questions about the educational system primarily in Bozeman and surrounding areas but also across the state. I currently reside in the incredibly wonderful state of Florida (that was sarcasm) and counting the days in which I get to move out! MSU is my top choice but my concern is with finding the right job in education after graduation. My primary reason for choosing my graduate degree is because of the horrific state our educational system is in, I am no longer content just teaching, I want to get into the systems and change the schools. Too many kids getting diagnosed with disorders because our schools are designed for one type of child. With that said, I understand that most states do not have schools like Florida but what exactly are the issues with Gallatin County schools or other areas of the state? Are the systems good there? I'm not concerned with pay, I got into education knowing I wouldn't get paid but I want to know that my degree would be useful. I could stay in Florida and have a successful career but I really, really dislike Florida. I love teaching and I love the kids and I'm tired of hearing excuses from my fellow teachers about not being able to do enough, not have the resources and the like. No more complaining, it's time to put ideas into action! MSU isn't my only choice, just my top. Any info on schools would be greatly appreciated thank you.

[bigtrees]

The first part of your posts sounds simple, and I'd encourage you to go to MSU because it's a great school and a great location.

The rest of the post sends up red flags all over though. First of all, do you have any experience teaching? I can't tell from your post. In Montana, teacher salaries only depend on experience and education (with emphasis on education). Going into teaching with no experience but lots of education mean the school district has to pay you a lot of money, which they don't like to do, so they hire someone without a masters degree instead. It may not be as bad if you have been teaching for a while.

Second red flag is hearing how you are looking to find out what is bad with Montana schools and that you want to fix them. As you no doubt have already read on here, Montana is not keen on outsiders coming in and "fixing" what people perceive our problems to be. It's a good way not to make friends around here.

So - are you looking for a masters of education from MSU or are you looking to "fix" the messed up Bozeman School District? By the way, it's very hard to get a job with Bozeman schools because they graduate so many teachers from MSU and most of them would like to stay put in Bozeman rather than move away.

It sounds like you have heard about the dismal state of teacher salaries in Montana. Fresh graduates usually make about 18-22k a year in most school districts.

[vter4ever]

My apologies for sounding as if I wanted to "fix problems" in Montana. After reading over my post, it seemed as my only goals involved finding problems. I guess it comes from teaching currently in Florida where it's hard to ignore the problems. My problem is not with Montana or any other state in particular but in regards to our entire educational system. I want to conduct research on different possibilities in regards to how classrooms are managed, classes and programs offered and the removal of medication from perfectly normal, predominately male students. I do teach currently and now wish to move into a more research role. My reasons for asking about Montana school systems is that in order for me to conduct this research, I would need issues to research on. I have heard many great things about Bozeman schools, which is why I asked about the negative. I would conduct the same research anywhere. I might try and teach while obtaining my masters but again pay is not an issue. I am content with living below my means to do what I love to do. I make good money teaching in Florida but my surroundings are more important.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

The first part of your posts sounds simple, and I'd encourage you to go to MSU because it's a great school and a great location.

Second red flag is hearing how you are looking to find out what is bad with Montana schools and that you want to fix them. As you no doubt have already read on here, Montana is not keen on outsiders coming in and "fixing" what people perceive our problems to be. It's a good way not to make friends around here.
.

Yes darnit, they're OUR screwed up backwards schools but we'll be damned if someone's going to come in here and tell US how they could be fixed!!!
They've been this way for 30 years for cripes sakes.
Durned outsiders, what do they know???

[grizzfan]

Out of curiosity, what is your undergraduate major?

I have a real bias against Schools of Education. What I'd like to see is someone with a BS or BA in Chemistry, get a graduate degree in Chemistry and teach. Schools of Education are one point of a trifecta that promotes the present mediocrity in our schools. The other parts are the teacher's unions and school boards.

My horrific experience with the School of Education in trying to obtain a teacher's certificate after graduating with a degree in Chemistry was enough to keep me from ever considering that "profession". After practice teaching chemistry and biology with the highest marks, I challenged a course on "Curriculum Foundations", took the test and aced it. The School of Education denied me credit because they gave me the wrong book to read!!! Idiots. And to this day schools of education and students that participate there are still filled with the same kind of mediocrity.

The system is broken by a government monopoly that promotes the other parts of the fraud on taxpayers, parents and students. There are certainly some exceptions, but the recent trend toward home schooling and private schools, particularly in the West, is indicative that we, as parents and taxpayers, aren't going to put up with it any more.

[vter4ever]

I have a double bachelors in Psychology and Math, I actually teach H.S. social science. I have the same concerns with degrees of any form in education and I see plenty of friends who majored in education as undergrads and now are stuck. What I want out of graduate degree is the ability to research on issues faced in the educational system, any state or city. I want to focus on the elementary years and look at why we have so many young kids, mainly boys, being put on meds. But the realty is these kids don't have "issues" they are in a school system built for a very small portion of the population. Boys and girls DO NOT have the same learning ability in the elementary years. I would like to conduct research to support the separation of genders in the young years and design classrooms based on a majority of the population. My reason for questioning the Bozeman area was purely to determine whether I would have the "issues" to research on.

Without my graduate degree in curriculum and instruction, I wouldn't be able to work with school districts. Even though I believe that my teaching experience and psych degree give me the knowledge needed. If I was to continue teaching only...I would get a history or related graduate degree. They learn less getting an education degree focused on teaching then they get with actually majoring in their subject of choice, so I agree completely.

School boards and unions are a thread in there own, here in Florida we are not a right to work state. A MAT only gives you a few thousand more a year, here in Florida they WANT people with more than a teaching degree, which is their new attempt at bettering their teaching staff. I could go on but it would be a while!

Originally Posted by grizzfan

Out of curiosity, what is your undergraduate major?

I have a real bias against Schools of Education. What I'd like to see is someone with a BS or BA in Chemistry, get a graduate degree in Chemistry and teach. Schools of Education are one point of a trifecta that promotes the present mediocrity in our schools. The other parts are the teacher's unions and school boards.

My horrific experience with the School of Education in trying to obtain a teacher's certificate after graduating with a degree in Chemistry was enough to keep me from ever considering that "profession". After practice teaching chemistry and biology with the highest marks, I challenged a course on "Curriculum Foundations", took the test and aced it. The School of Education denied me credit because they gave me the wrong book to read!!! Idiots. And to this day schools of education and students that participate there are still filled with the same kind of mediocrity.

The system is broken by a government monopoly that promotes the other parts of the fraud on taxpayers, parents and students. There are certainly some exceptions, but the recent trend toward home schooling and private schools, particularly in the West, is indicative that we, as parents and taxpayers, aren't going to put up with it any more.

[grizzfan]

Good for you vter4ever!

The unscientific explanation for more boys being put on Ritilin and other meds is to make them more like little girls. But I think there is some thread of truth in that explanation.

Either MSU or UM have good programs. I tend to push UM because I'm and Alum!

Good luck to you sir.

[Joe Doer]

Originally Posted by jimj

Yes darnit, they're OUR screwed up backwards schools but we'll be damned if someone's going to come in here and tell US how they could be fixed!!!
They've been this way for 30 years for cripes sakes.
Durned outsiders, what do they know???

Would you REALLY be opposed to someone from out of state coming up with an idea that might possibly help?

Do you REALLY believe we should continue to do something wrong because we have been doing it that way for 30 years?

We are talking about children.

Its not like she's trying to build a mansion in your backyard to live in for two weeks a year, come in and put in a Starbucks and a "big box" store across the street, and make you move your junk car off the front lawn.

[bigtrees]

Originally Posted by Joe Doer

Would you REALLY be opposed to someone from out of state coming up with an idea that might possibly help?

Do you REALLY believe we should continue to do something wrong because we have been doing it that way for 30 years?

We are talking about children.

Its not like she's trying to build a mansion in your backyard to live in for two weeks a year, come in and put in a Starbucks and a "big box" store across the street, and make you move your junk car off the front lawn.

Last I heard is Montana schools are considered pretty good. At least that's what everyone moving to Montana says, they're moving there for good schools and a good place to raise the family. So I'd say that Montana schools aren't broken. Perhaps broke, but not broken.

Actually, the schools are underfunded. Nice thing is you don't have to pay teachers much for them to want to teach there. I'm not sure that not paying people enough is limited to teaching though.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Joe Doer

Would you REALLY be opposed to someone from out of state coming up with an idea that might possibly help?

Do you REALLY believe we should continue to do something wrong because we have been doing it that way for 30 years?

We are talking about children.

Its not like she's trying to build a mansion in your backyard to live in for two weeks a year, come in and put in a Starbucks and a "big box" store across the street, and make you move your junk car off the front lawn.

Actually it was kind of a sarcastic swipe at another response you got about coming here.
My opinion is that I wish someone would come here and be able to do something to fix some things. Unfortunately the operating opinion is pretty much what I stated above, the schools are operated as a fifedom and woe to the person/teacher who disagrees with the administration.