03-07-2010, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
brikag
Although I am a big fan of Olympic competition, I can't believe that any Montanan would seriously consider this proposal. There have been countless threads on this forum, which I have followed for over two years, that detail the insidious degradation of a unique way of life. The raping of land by unscrupulous developers, the focus on material conveniences at the expense of natural beauty, the rudeness of people that are here "just visiting" with no sensitivity to native Montanans, etc, etc.
The Olympics would bring the two poisons that Montanans have been railing against:
money without a conscience, and
hundreds of thousands of people with little respect, if any, for Montana. If you think you can barely afford the cost of living around Bozeman now, just wait for the speculators and "quick-buck" artists that will invade to capitalize on the Olympics.
If there is a fishing hole left near Bozeman now, it will be paved over for an ice skating arena
. That little 20 acres you used to hunt on will be developed for a new hotel.
And the view from the chair you sit in to watch the sun slowly slip over the mountains at sunset, is going to blocked by the shadow of the ski-lift. Those pesky ranch cattle will need to be relocated to make way for the electric tram to ferry tourists to the corn dog stands.
Putting the Olympics in Bozeman (or anywhere in Montana) makes about as much sense as locating a whorehouse in a church.
You may make a lot of money, but I don't think you'll like what it does to your value system.
03-08-2010, 01:26 AM
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
GLS
The Olympics would bring the two poisons that Montanans have been railing against: money without a conscience, and hundreds of thousands of people with little respect, if any, for Montana. If you think you can barely afford the cost of living around Bozeman now, just wait for the speculators and "quick-buck" artists that will invade to capitalize on the Olympics.
Exactly!! Not to mention that it would leave the state bankrupt, and there is also a serious risk that it would turn MT into a permanent tourist economy... which means MT would be forever at the mercy of other economies, with no way to recover.
Never forget: when you market commodities everyone needs to live (food, energy), you always have something to fall back on; but when you depend on other people having extra money to spend, every time things get a little tight for them, you starve.
Side thought: One wonders if the IOC does a little submarine marketing to convince suckers to host the Olympics -- since historically, there has been only ONE case of a city that didn't lose its shirt. But think of the prestige, the glory, the tourists! No, no, don't think of the billions of dollars of construction now sitting idle, you'll find SOMEONE to rent it to, right?? RIGHT??
As Olympic glow fades, Athens questions $15 billion cost / The Christian Science Monitor - CSMonitor.com and
2004 Summer Olympics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia In 2008 it was reported that almost all of the Olympic venues have fallen into varying states of disrepair: according to those reports, 21 of the 22 facilities built for the games have either been left abandoned or are in a state of dereliction, with several squatter camps having sprung up around certain facilities, and a number of venues afflicted by vandalism, graffiti or strewn with rubbish....The annual cost to maintain the sites has been estimated at £500 million, a sum which has been politically controversial in Greece.[24], though it should be noted that many of these facilities are now under the control of domestic sporting clubs and organizations or the private sector. Is this what you want? I don't:
The Heights - Olympics Drain Canadian Economy (http://www.bcheights.com/marketplace/olympics-drain-canadian-economy-1.1173829 - broken link)
"The total cost is estimated to exceed CAD $6 billion."
How many years of MT's total economy is that?? (that number works out to a cost of over $6000 for every man, woman, and child in MT.) And remember, Vancouver already had a lot of the necessary infrastructure... and by 2020 or so, costs can be expected at 2 to 3 times as high, while revenues are likely to continue to shrink.
03-08-2010, 01:33 AM
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Article from the Greek Embassy:
Cost of Athens 2004 Olympics Of that 8.954 billion euro total, an estimated 7.202 billion was footed by the State, with the remaining 1.752 billion euro coming from the Athens 2004 Organizing Committee (ATHOC) and financed by the committee's revenues from ticket sales, television broadcast rights, Olympic-logo product sales, and sponsorships. In short, Greece had to cough up 7 billion euro (somewhere around $10B U.S.) and one has to wonder to what degree that contributed to their current economic collapse.
Last edited by Reziac; 03-08-2010 at 01:34 AM ..
Reason: flunked arithmetic :)
03-08-2010, 01:44 AM
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Here's a great article on the aftermath of the Olympics, going back over the past 3 decades:
After The Party: What happens when the Olympics leave town - Olympics, Sport - The Independent
Over and over, the theme is: a few distinct benefits (primarily to airports and public transport; only of value if you're already a big-city transportation hub), a huge financial loss (paid for by taxpayers), a spike in property prices (note the Barcelona segment; sound familiar?), and a bunch of lightly-used facilities sitting empty and now either crumbling or being maintained at taxpayer expense.
03-08-2010, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reziac
Better yet, exile them to wherever the winter Olympics finally wind up. And put them in charge of the economic cleanup.
My suggestion for the 2022 Olympics city is Las Vegas. It can be held indoors in July in 120 degree heat, because by then, all sports will be played only on video games.
03-08-2010, 11:32 AM
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I was in Bozeman in mid January, it is a really nice town. But it definately does not have sufficient hotels, restaurants and transportation to support something like the Olympics. And I would hate to see this wonderful town to be grown into a mega city in order to support a two week event.
And that does not address the cost; or the other issues already mentioned.
There is alot to be said for a wonderful small town where people are friendly. The thought of what could potentially happen to Bozeman under the crush of the media alone - not to mention the specitators.
You know once you let the genie out of the bottle you can't put it back in.
03-08-2010, 11:59 AM
Location: NW Montana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
reziac
okay, here are some numbers -- it looks like any city hosting the olympics, summer or winter, can expect to be left with massive debts, and only occasionally do they turn a profit... And then only if you spin the numbers just so:
winter olympics profit loss - google search
which olympic host cities have made a profit rather than being left with debts? - yahoo! Answers (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091002113643aaxfqpt - broken link)
olympic caveats: Host cities risk debt, scandal : Npr
mediapost publications nbc scores olympic profit 01/26/2009 (http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fa=articles.showarticle&art_aid=99008 - broken link)
re: Caught under a mountain of olympic debt - armed volunteers patrol mexican border - aol message boards
the quoted article also points out that it costs hundreds of millions of dollars in upkeep every year thereafter, for facilities which post-olympics lie almost unused.
Can't see the link now but somewhere i found figures that beijing is spending $23 billion, and projects revenues of only about $120 million. So... A few bucks lost for every buck that comes in. This seems to be the norm, after all the paper shuffling is extracted. Appears that the only way to turn a profit is if
all the needful facilities already exist , as was the case with los angeles.
I'd guess the only way bozeman could pay for this is to sell gallatin county to california.
:d:dlol!
03-08-2010, 12:17 PM
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
GLS
My suggestion for the 2022 Olympics city is Las Vegas. It can be held indoors in July in 120 degree heat, because by then, all sports will be played only on video games.
You're a bit late to that suggestion
Home of the Video Game Olympics!
03-08-2010, 12:28 PM
Location: Illinois
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
rickers
I have a long standing grudge against the olympic games. They seem to refuse to accept surfing as a world class summer sport, but don't they have a ribbon dancing event ?
When I think of the olympics I think of corruption, steroids and host cities losing their patooties financially.
If folks don't want a flood of out of state immigrants moving in, in one giant wave then the last thing in the world they should be wishing for is for the olympics to be held in Montana.
I agree with you ~~ 100%. Even tho I do not live there, I feel the overall beauty of Montana would suffer.
Last edited by nan5623; 03-08-2010 at 12:29 PM ..
Reason: spelling
03-08-2010, 12:48 PM
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Reedsmit
You know once you let the genie out of the bottle you can't put it back in.
And when the bottle is already showing some cracks is not the time to whack it with a hammer!!
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)