Anyone read "the upside to Shrinking population"

[Vex]

Originally Posted by BigD_JT_14221

I hear ya Vex but there is no utopia in state governing bodies. Just different ways of getting from A to B. The taxpayer is rarely 100% happy with this process!
I' ve lived in NYS and out of NYS, both for a long time. You think it's bad because of news articles and slanted reporting by people with agendas?
People collectively get down on WNY. I know. Been there...
The reality is you wind up splitting hairs when you really take an unbiased view of your choices. Could you save a few hundred in some low tax state like mine? Sure you could. But you pay it back with absurd utilities, poor schools, higher crime (even in higher median income areas) and sorely lacking infrastructure, terrible commutes and awful congestion.
Honestly, when you focus on more than just taxes and politics, you realize what a great option WNY can be! Maybe I'll come home and take your place when you leave... You never know!

I suppose my stance is heavily principled. I'm a libertarian, I believe in small government and personal freedom and responsibility. WNY is the antithesis of my ideals. It bothers me that the livelihood of so many is achieved not by productivity or merit, but by obtaining a privileged status through political channels. And in doing so, they are largely responsible for this region's decline.

It bothers me that Buffalonians will speak full of pride about how Buffalo used to have the most millionaires per capita of any city. It bothers me that Buffalo's greatest buildings are near a decade old... That the city has such beautiful housing stock, full of ornate details created by true craftsman. And yet, all these triumphs of the past, are deteriorating. And it is because WNYers have forgotten what brought these great gems into existence to begin with: capitalism. WNY has far too much government and quasi-socialism for my tastes. Predictably, it has led to regional decline. And what is the proposed solution to WNY's problems? More government and more socialism...

WNY will not rebound until these attitudes change. Unfortunately, the "takers" outnumber the "makers" and while I believe change will ultimately become a necessity, I would expect those benefiting from the system to preserve the status quo to the bitter end. In the meantime one can expect ever increasing taxes and comparatively stagnant wages.

[wake875]

What you described pretty much outlines the problem with the country as a whole, most notable the economy.

[HowardRoarke]

Originally Posted by wake875

What you described pretty much outlines the problem with the country as a whole, most notable the economy.

x2

Originally from Rochester, although I have some family (what's left of 'em) in Buffalo. Their concerns are the same as those expressed here, as well as in other forums re: Upstate. Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse offer great things for just about any "taste", as I'll call it. We'd move to Buffalo or Rochester if either city offered what most people desire in a metro but, sadly, the shine has worn off Upstate to the point where it's not on many folks' radar screens, even for most ex-pats.

Conversely, as others have noted, the grass ain't always greener, although Esmonde's columns have gotten downright delusional in recent years to the point where I wonder about what drugs he's on. New York State government in Albany could care less about what happens west of Amsterdam, save for state employees, SUNY campuses, and the assorted special interests which keep pressure groups in a constant state of agitation. The taxpayers are left with a massive burden which only increases over time, especially as the population ages, and more productive people move away, sometimes taking businesses with them.

NY has missed golden opportunities to right the ship, but the same-old, same-old carries on. Right now NY should be doing what other states are trying to do re: reigning in spending and paying down debt. Add to that state labor laws which are slanted towards the unions and were written in the Stone Age of American labor, and it's no wonder NY is a mess. If Cuomo were serious about helping out Upstate he'd tackle these issues, but none of us should hold our breaths. The state has done little for Buffalo except dump untold millions into SUNY, which is a great investment however the successes there mask nasty underlying issues which are holding Buffalo back. Same for Rochester and the rest of Upstate. The state kicks in taxpayer dollars for failed projects in Rochester which are supposed to be "shots in the arm", yet the underlying issues are still there and hold the area back.

What is there to like about the 'burbs in Upstate? Generally, they're pretty darned safe, which doesn't hold true in a lot of metros. We lived in Columbia for a year before moving to Greenville, and, boy oh boy, I couldn't believe the crime there, as it's spread out like many places across the country. Mind you, this was pre-downturn. Add to that lax/incompetent law enforcement. The town we lived in there has had a 100% increase in burglaries in the last year.

I mention this because for what Upstate (NY) has to offer, there are too many downers, thus a lot of us ex-pats don't consider moving back. We've put up with stuff that were never issues for us in Rochester, but we're willing to put up with it because more opportunities are available to us, and our taxes are half what they were up there. If NY, the school districts, and the counties across the state got their houses in order, we'd consider moving back, but not for a combined sales, property, and state income tax burden of over $14,000 (probably much higher, now), plus all the other higher costs associated with NY.

Most of the Great Lakes basin just isn't worth it, these days, and one could follow U.S. 20 all the way from Buffalo to Illinois and see what I'm talking about.

Buffalo has what other medium and small metros would die for, TWO major sports teams which give folks a reason to get out of the house on a weekend, or even weeknight. Rochester can't hold a candle to that, at least not nearly to the extent the Sabres and Bills draw. The university and college community there is top-rate. It's a border town, on the better of the two borders. It's still a transportation hub. I'm sure others could list other positive attributes, both economic and cultural.