Buffalo vs Desert SW (Amherst, Union: real estate market, apartment, foreclosures)

[magnum0417]

OK. I am taking DFW's advice and starting a forum strictly devoted to the pros of WNY and Desert SW. I will try to keep WNY lingo and bad pizza issues I have out of it. Also. Orange County is NOT Long Island. I guess since I am an Islanders fan that assumption was made. Since my obvious disdain towards WNY has been mentioned recently, I will use this just to mention positives.

PROS of living in WNY

1) One and half hours from Toronto.
2) Modest diversity for ethnic cuisine.
3) Wineries and Fruit picking near Lake Ontario
4) Decent summers
5) I have nothing else positive to say in over 20 years of living in WNY besides the prior 4.

PROS of Desert SW (AZ,NM and W TX)

1) Favorable state taxes for employment and real estate
2) No potholes in lower elevations causing car damage.
3) Year around swimming (lower elevations)
4) Quick distance to ski and swim in the same day.
5) Geographic and ecological diversity over short distances
6) Rockies and San Francisco Peaks of AZ blow the Appalachins away
7) REAL hiking up mile to two plus mile high peaks
8) Gun ownership without a hassle
9) Anti-Welfare. You actually aren't rewarded for generous unemployment and welfare compensation.
10) Right to work states. No BS unions to enable laziness and nepotism like WNY.
11) Buyers market for real estate. WNY homes do not appreciate in value as they do in nicer climates in lower taxed states. The housing market has bottomed out and new buyers will see appreciation in the next 10-20 years way more than a home in WNY.
12) Awesome Mexican food. El Palenque is respectable in Amherst but not authentic.
11)

[Krisps]

I hear ya on 9-12, jeez I wish there was more and better Mexican food here. But I still very much prefer the lakes, climate, humidity, topography here... really hate that dry heat-lamp feel of the SW. Funny often when people negatively critique Buff compared to other areas, which in itself is fine, the place of comparison is usually an entire region of the country, such as the southwest here. That's quite a compliment to Buffalo.

[BigD_JT_14221]

So we're comparing 2 entire states + part of TX to WNY?
How bout we try comparing 1 city to another?
I spend a great deal of time in Phoenix, so I wil try to comparing metros of PHX and BUF.
Topics:
Weather: I'll take 4 months of 30's over 4 months of 100's everyday
Water: buffalo has it, phi trucks it in from far away
Grass: you want a lawn or a pile of gravel? Muff said
Border wars: Canada so much friendlier than Mexican border
Right to work: aka you have no rights.
Real estate: if you bought a house for $250k in phoenix 3 yrs ago you might get $150k now. Speculative real estate markets aren't conducive to stability.
Bugs: they annoy you in WNY. They can kill you in Phoenix
Need I go on?

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by BigD_JT_14221

So we're comparing 2 entire states + part of TX to WNY?
How bout we try comparing 1 city to another?
I spend a great deal of time in Phoenix, so I wil try to comparing metros of PHX and BUF.
Topics:
Weather: I'll take 4 months of 30's over 4 months of 100's everyday
Water: buffalo has it, phi trucks it in from far away
Grass: you want a lawn or a pile of gravel? Muff said
Border wars: Canada so much friendlier than Mexican border
Right to work: aka you have no rights.
Real estate: if you bought a house for $250k in phoenix 3 yrs ago you might get $150k now. Speculative real estate markets aren't conducive to stability.
Bugs: they annoy you in WNY. They can kill you in Phoenix
Need I go on?

Topics:
Weather: Being an outdoors guy who enjoys swimming and kayaking, Phoenix and nearby Lake Roosevelt and Verde River are good short distance outlets. I plan on kayaking the Colorado just south of Page too.

Water: Subdivisions being built need to meet the 100 year guarantee of water being available. I'll be 140 when they run out.LOL. Anywhere near metro Phoenix doesn't haul water. Outlying areas, yes. I have no issues with that either. The aquifers are plentiful and clean in Northern AZ where I plan to eventually buy land and even build an off the grid getaway.

Grass: Not concerned. One less hour of house chores.LOL

Border Wars: Maricopa County has been proactive in greatly reducing carjackings and home invasions the past couple years. Most of the crap is down near Tucson. Ironically, bordertowns like Nogales ,Sierra Vista and Douglas are pretty safe with the strong military presence. Regardless, I agree Canada is overall safer.

Right to work: If you truly are confident in your abilities, you should always be employable. Unions have weakened for a reason in the NE. NY teachers union is even falling apart and not offering generous pensions. My parents are retired NYS teachers and they acknowledge they were lucky to retire when they did.

Housing: I still standby the market correcting itself. Doubt we'll see 150K homes 400K before the bubble popped. However, 250K is reasonable in 10-20 years since lending standards have tightened to prevent umpteen thousand foreclosures and subprime mortgages with adjustable rates.

Bugs: I have hiked in rural parts of AZ. Yes, scorps and snakes are an issue. Take your time, do it during the day and do it in groups and you should be fine. Scorpions are nocturnal and like dark spots under homes,rocks and dirt piles. Keep your home clean and get exterminators in every 3 months to spray.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by Krisps

I hear ya on 9-12, jeez I wish there was more and better Mexican food here. But I still very much prefer the lakes, climate, humidity, topography here... really hate that dry heat-lamp feel of the SW. Funny often when people negatively critique Buff compared to other areas, which in itself is fine, the place of comparison is usually an entire region of the country, such as the southwest here. That's quite a compliment to Buffalo.

Deciduous trees and elevations from 240 ft and Lake Ontario to 2000 in the So Tier isn't much for variety. An hour from Phoenix is 5000 ft with snow and ponderosa in Payson,AZ. That is variety and flexibility. Payson is closer to Phoenix than Jamestown is to Buffalo.

[jblake78728]

1)We moved to NY from Texas (as in no state income tax) ..... we both make more here (my wife makes significantly more) after taxes than we made in Texas. While I understand everyone's situation is different why would I choose to stay in a state with no winter, less pay & far less opportunities for my wife because they don't have state income tax?

3)Summer is my least favorite season so year round swimming really isn't a selling point.

5)The only diversity is brown (sand/dirt) & reddish brown (rock) with a few cacti mixed in.

6)Really depends what you like. Sure those mountains are higher but if you like lush/green they would be ugly as hell.

8)I really couldn't care less about guns so again not a real selling point.

9)I take care of mine so I don't really care.

11) Phoenix & Vegas foreclosure rates have been among the highest in the nation.

12)While I do agree Ill add that Tex-Mex is better than anything in AZ, NM, Colorado, Utah or SoCal & it aint close. I'm also not in the habit of moving somewhere because they have better Mexican food.





I went to college & lived in Austin for over a decade. Loved the city, people & nearby hill country, hated the heat. Once you get into West Texas (which is closer to what you are talking about in this thread than the ATX) it becomes a barren wasteland. I prefer green, lush landscape with plenty of water & absolutely hate temps 90 & above so I really find no beauty in the Desert Southwest.

I'm watching the Indians/Dbacks game right now on STO & the Indians announcers were saying that at 7pm AZ time it was still 112 outside ..... NO THANKS!

Orange County is NOT Long Island. I guess since I am an Islanders fan that assumption was made.

Doesn't really matter, instead of being a Long Island prick you're a downstate prick.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

1)We moved to NY from Texas (as in no state income tax) ..... we both make more here (my wife makes significantly more) after taxes than we made in Texas. While I understand everyone's situation is different why would I choose to stay in a state with no winter, less pay & far less opportunities for my wife because they don't have state income tax?

3)Summer is my least favorite season so year round swimming really isn't a selling point.

5)The only diversity is brown (sand/dirt) & reddish brown (rock) with a few cacti mixed in.

6)Really depends what you like. Sure those mountains are higher but if you like lush/green they would be ugly as hell.

8)I really couldn't care less about guns so again not a real selling point.

9)I take care of mine so I don't really care.

11) Phoenix & Vegas foreclosure rates have been among the highest in the nation.

12)While I do agree Ill add that Tex-Mex is better than anything in AZ, NM, Colorado, Utah or SoCal & it aint close. I'm also not in the habit of moving somewhere because they have better Mexican food.





I went to college & lived in Austin for over a decade. Loved the city, people & nearby hill country, hated the heat. Once you get into West Texas (which is closer to what you are talking about in this thread than the ATX) it becomes a barren wasteland. I prefer green, lush landscape with plenty of water & absolutely hate temps 90 & above so I really find no beauty in the Desert Southwest.

I'm watching the Indians/Dbacks game right now on STO & the Indians announcers were saying that at 7pm AZ time it was still 112 outside ..... NO THANKS!



Doesn't really matter, instead of being a Long Island prick you're a downstate prick.

I make no apologies for explaining the environment I've lived in since 1990. Although I honestly have only visited El Paso and Amarillo, I have heard great things about Austin from others. It sounds like you just burned out on Texas. Understand 20 years is "giving an area a chance." If I moved here in 2009 and said what I said, you have the right to call me out. However, I have described in great detail on recent threads my personal issues with WNY. As far as the Orange Co/LI take....opinions are like a$$holes....you know the rest.

[magnum0417]

Lastly, I am actually transferring out to Phoenix permanently so I have had a positive rapport with a great number of people there over the years. I honestly would of made the move years ago had my wife not had to go through treatments at Roswell. Fortunately, they have the Mayo Clinic and other top notch medical centers out there if we have to cross that road again. I personally have been a bit distant from the people here due to the way people here took advantage of my wife's kindness and generosity. Especially since my wife received little emotional support when she could of used it the past couple years. I have again, found people here to generally be selfish and any nice overtures always have agendas behind them (borrow money, make dinner but my wife needs to make a dessert,etc.)

My family has given way more to leaches in this town than we have gotten back in return to say the least. It's not a complaint. It just shows that our character and dignity has wasted many prime years and we look forward to forever leave it in a rearview mirror.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by magnum0417

I make no apologies for explaining the environment I've lived in since 1990. Although I honestly have only visited El Paso and Amarillo, I have heard great things about Austin from others. It sounds like you just burned out on Texas. Understand 20 years is "giving an area a chance." If I moved here in 2009 and said what I said, you have the right to call me out. However, I have described in great detail on recent threads my personal issues with WNY. As far as the Orange Co/LI take....opinions are like a$$holes....you know the rest.

Don't get me wrong I understand a lot of your reasons for disliking the area, the problem I have is that you try to make those of us who like it here seem like we're a bunch of morons. Everyone has different likes/dislikes, everyone's situation is different. Reasons that you hate this area may not be important to others & reasons why I like it may not matter to you. That's just the way it is.

I wouldn't say I burned out on Texas, like I said I absolutely loved the city of Austin & all it has to offer. I was never really a fan of the heat though I wouldn't say that was a deciding factor in why we moved (though it was part of the reason we picked NY over other areas). The real reasons we moved were ...

1) we had children that were getting close to school age. Not sure what you know about the Texas school system but its not pretty. Its seriously underfunded & many of their texts/course materials are several years behind states with stronger systems (like NY, Mass, MD). It also didn't help that they decided they wanted to start teaching creationism in their schools.

2) my wife is a radiologist. Austin itself has 3 colleges that put out radiologists, San Antonio has at least 3 more. Radiologists are a dime a dozen in Central Texas, its basically impossible to get a full time position out of college (my wife started out working per diem filling in for vacations & sick call while having to keep a full time job at Sears). Even when she got a full time position the pay was nothing to brag about because the employer knows that if you don't like it they can have 50 other qualified applicants knocking on their door in minutes. By comparison medical professionals are in short supply in WNY & the pay here is outstanding. My wife makes the same amount here she could make in California (the highest paying state for her and most other fields) though the cost of living here is a fraction of what it is in Cali. The company that brought her here paid 100% of our relocation costs, our 1st 3 months rent (which was on a house in Mt Vernon overlooking Lake Erie so its not like they were paying for a $400/month run down apartment in the hood) & a $20K sign on bonus ($10K the day she started & $10K after 90 days). Considering winter was more of a selling point to us than a negative we would've been fools not to come here.

3) I grew up in the Baltimore area (and my parents still live there). While my wife grew up in Texas she was an Army brat & none of here family lives there right now (most of her family lives in NW Ohio & Michigan). Buffalo is an easy drive to/from either area so the grandparents can get to see the grand kids more than once a year (like they did when we lived in Texas). Really didn't care much about how far away I lived from my family until I had kids & realized how much my mom missed her grand daughters.

[magnum0417]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

Don't get me wrong I understand a lot of your reasons for disliking the area, the problem I have is that you try to make those of us who like it here seem like we're a bunch of morons. Everyone has different likes/dislikes, everyone's situation is different. Reasons that you hate this area may not be important to others & reasons why I like it may not matter to you. That's just the way it is.

I wouldn't say I burned out on Texas, like I said I absolutely loved the city of Austin & all it has to offer. I was never really a fan of the heat though I wouldn't say that was a deciding factor in why we moved (though it was part of the reason we picked NY over other areas). The real reasons we moved were ...

1) we had children that were getting close to school age. Not sure what you know about the Texas school system but its not pretty. Its seriously underfunded & many of their texts/course materials are several years behind states with stronger systems (like NY, Mass, MD). It also didn't help that they decided they wanted to start teaching creationism in their schools.

2) my wife is a radiologist. Austin itself has 3 colleges that put out radiologists, San Antonio has at least 3 more. Radiologists are a dime a dozen in Central Texas, its basically impossible to get a full time position out of college (my wife started out working per diem filling in for vacations & sick call while having to keep a full time job at Sears). Even when she got a full time position the pay was nothing to brag about because the employer knows that if you don't like it they can have 50 other qualified applicants knocking on their door in minutes. By comparison medical professionals are in short supply in WNY & the pay here is outstanding. My wife makes the same amount here she could make in California (the highest paying state for her and most other fields) though the cost of living here is a fraction of what it is in Cali. The company that brought her here paid 100% of our relocation costs, our 1st 3 months rent (which was on a house in Mt Vernon overlooking Lake Erie so its not like they were paying for a $400/month run down apartment in the hood) & a $20K sign on bonus ($10K the day she started & $10K after 90 days). Considering winter was more of a selling point to us than a negative we would've been fools not to come here.

3) I grew up in the Baltimore area (and my parents still live there). While my wife grew up in Texas she was an Army brat & none of here family lives there right now (most of her family lives in NW Ohio & Michigan). Buffalo is an easy drive to/from either area so the grandparents can get to see the grand kids more than once a year (like they did when we lived in Texas). Really didn't care much about how far away I lived from my family until I had kids & realized how much my mom missed her grand daughters.

Baltimore gets a bad rap. Have a friend in Ellicott City who does well for himself. Saw an O's game in the 90's just after their Camden Yards was built. Suburbs are nice, just quite expensive.

You sound like a smart standup kind of guy J Blake. I am very grateful for Dr Lele's work on two seperate occasions on my wife at Roswell. When I first came to this Buffalo forum, I said that the medical field is very strong and growing in the Buffalo area. Even the most Anti WNYers cannot deny the first rate medical care here.So I guess if you have serious illness, this is a good place to reside.

In that regard, I am glad I stuck around here long enough to get those needs addressed. We have no kids and won't after her treatments either. Time for us to be selfish and live our lives again with a fresh start in an environment we appreciate.

I wish you and your family the best of luck in WNY. Maybe being around the block after college elsewhere gave you knowledge and perspective to not fall victim to the many pitfalls of WNY which I spent 2 decades finding out through trial and error with other people we've came across. Like I have said on other threads, adversities make you more appreciative of the present and future opportunities that lie ahead.