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I usually disagree with Bruce Fisher on a lot of things ... but he is absolutely right on this. This is short-sighted thinking that will not only hurt the city but also the poorer suburbs, and ultimately the whole region because people will end up not being able to get education because they can't get there. ECC students are exactly the kind of students that need easy access with public transit, since they don't have much income yet - and yet, the county is doing its best to make sure the future "degree" campus is as inaccessible as possible. We have been subsidizing construction of educational institutions in the suburbs for decades - see UB North Campus as the obvious example - and it never works very well, because the students become isolated out there and the campuses are so spread out and isolated from anything around them that they don't stimulate much nearby economic development like they do in more urban environments (ie. Buff State is a big part of the reason Elmwood works so well).
Luckily, there is a lot of recent precedent for sprawl projects like this being shot down in lawsuits for being discriminatory against poorer populations - so I would bet you that this isn't a done deal yet. This is also probably against NYS's new Smart Growth law, so it's possible that might kick in to stop it.
Luckily, there is a lot of recent precedent for sprawl projects like this being shot down in lawsuits for being discriminatory against poorer populations - so I would bet you that this isn't a done deal yet. This is also probably against NYS's new Smart Growth law, so it's possible that might kick in to stop it.
So youre punishing the wealthier communities for being wealthy? It makes sense that you want to locate a premier educational institution (ha-like ECC is one of those but I digress) in a high wealth area because, people with more disposable income can also afford to pay higher taxes. Therefore, you attract big name (or at least big opportunity) schools to the area, hike up the taxes, and rake in the bucks. The fact that Buffalo died when the manufacturing left doesnt mean it has to drag the rest of the suburbs down with it.
So youre punishing the wealthier communities for being wealthy? It makes sense that you want to locate a premier educational institution (ha-like ECC is one of those but I digress) in a high wealth area because, people with more disposable income can also afford to pay higher taxes. Therefore, you attract big name (or at least big opportunity) schools to the area, hike up the taxes, and rake in the bucks. The fact that Buffalo died when the manufacturing left doesnt mean it has to drag the rest of the suburbs down with it.
This doesn't make sense, as the central city is is the reason why suburbs are there in the first place and it is hard to find an area where the central city isn't important to the vitality of that metro to some degree.
Also, I think what laldm is saying is that the students that are attending ECC are most likely those that live in the city or first ring suburbs and putting the campus further away from them doesn't make sense.
Here's the thing, this is a fight between wealthy landowners and has *nothing* to do with what's best for students. If ECC ran a shuttle bus, would that solve the relocation problem?
Typical city vs suburbia BS from Buffalo politicians and their mouthpieces.
Community college course offerings are student driven by demand, and the demand is for classes at the North Campus. The ECC North Campus has more students than the South Campus and the Downtown Campus combined.
Downtown Buffalo is NOT the population center of Erie County. Two thirds of Erie County residents live outside the City of Buffalo, and of the residents who live inside the city, most don't live particularly close to downtown. The population center of Erie County has been moving steadily north and east since the 1960s.
The consolidation of ECC into one downtown campus was a stupid idea in 2005 when Joel Giambra proposed it, and it's NOT any smarter today with his buddy Fisher doing the propagandizing. Studies showed that consolidation would cause a precipitous drop in enrollment, especially among Northtowns residents who would be even more inclined to attend nearby NCCC than they have been. The loss of tuition and the cost of charge-back monies that Erie County would have to pay to NCCC would have wiped out any alleged savings. That's why it was rejected in 2005.
The building of the STEM building at ECC North has nothing to do with sprawl since the area around ECC North is already built up. What's got Fisher's (and his buddy Giambra's) danders up is the fact that their developer pals won't get to sell the county over-priced real estate near downtown. ECC has enough land on its north campus for the building without buying extra land. It would have to purchase property near the downtown campus to put up the building.
Fisher should actually try taking a bus downtown from the outlying parts of the city and see how long it takes to get there. And then do it during the time when the high schools are letting out and at night when many routes don't run all that often.
It's BS like this that makes "regionalism" a dirty word in Erie County because what the "regionalism" crowd really wants is to force every institution and every resident to live in the City of Buffalo. That includes Fisher, Giambra, and Gaughan.
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19,219 posts, read 17,091,524 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
This doesn't make sense, as the central city is is the reason why suburbs are there in the first place and it is hard to find an area where the central city isn't important to the vitality of that metro to some degree.
Also, I think what laldm is saying is that the students that are attending ECC are most likely those that live in the city or first ring suburbs and putting the campus further away from them doesn't make sense.
This perhaps is the change to the equaton that many don't want to acknowledge. Suburbs did spring up in support of the central city but over time they have become the destination themselves. Jobs, shopping, hospitals, schools all the features the city provided have relocated. In many older cities the suburbs are the more influential element and the city struggles to redefine it's purpose...
Yes, what we need is more expansion and home building. We need every road to be a Sheridan Drive with stop lights every two minutes. We need more cars and more crap to support all that growth. That's what we need. The suburbs have recently grown because of the BS "good schools" mantra.
I'm not saying that putting the campus downtown will be any smarter than putting it in the Northern location, but this is a fight b/w landowners and has NOTHING to do with where students are or what is best for them.
Additionally, where are all these college grads going to work?
Yes, what we need is more expansion and home building. We need every road to be a Sheridan Drive with stop lights every two minutes. We need more cars and more crap to support all that growth. That's what we need. The suburbs have recently grown because of the BS "good schools" mantra.
I'm not saying that putting the campus downtown will be any smarter than putting it in the Northern location, but this is a fight b/w landowners and has NOTHING to do with where students are or what is best for them.
Additionally, where are all these college grads going to work?
....not in the Buffalo Metro Area that's for sure!
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