A new Bills stadium? (New York, Buffalo: employment, taxi, high income)

[gonetoelpaso]

Originally Posted by jazzy jeff 11

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SABRES are here to stay. Sabres belong here. Bills can go.

bandwagon fan, when the bills go 11-5, you will not be allowed to cheer for them

[jblake78728]

The regular season game with the Dolphins was 1000 short of a sellout, a reported 52,134 (and they were over 10K short of a sellout for the preseason game with Pittsburgh) ....... almost 20K less than the Bills draw for a home game in OP. All the ticket money goes to Rogers, not the Bills as the Bills were paid in advance by Rogers. The league is not going to allow a new owner to move them if they are making a profit (and they are). Selling the naming rights of the stadium will most likely be one of the first things any new owner will do, then they will need to aggressively pursue corporate sponsors ..... something the current owner has never done. Right now it is more likely that the Jaguars relocate to Toronto (or LA) before the Bills go anywhere.

[jblake78728]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

Has anyone ever been to Cleveland? Their stadium is on the water in the corner of their downtown, as with the Indians ballpark, but they have other downtown attractions too. Food for thought. If we (in Buffalo) had the downtown we did 30 years ago.... a stadium for football might have been plausable.

Since I mentioned Cleveland in my last post, I have a few Cleveland pictures to go along with what I was saying.

Prior to those stadiums being built downtown Cleveland was as bad (if not worse) than downtown Buffalo. Building the stadium is only part of the solution, you also need to upgrade the downtown entertainment & lodging in what would become the stadium district. A new stadium (with the other upgrades) could help revitalize what is now pretty much a ghost town. Look at the revitalization of Pittsburgh. It was largely done in conjunction with Hines Field & PNC Park ..... in the 3 Rivers Stadium day's Pittsburgh's downtown was a mess ..... now it is a blue print for rebirth of the rust belt cities.

Of course we can always run the Bills & Sabres out of WNY (as you seem to advocate) & watch Buffalo turn into Flint, Michigan or Toledo, Ohio. You think people are leaving Buffalo in droves now? Let the pro sports teams leave & see what happens .......

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

Of course we can always run the Bills & Sabres out of WNY (as you seem to advocate) & watch Buffalo turn into Flint, Michigan or Toledo, Ohio. You think people are leaving Buffalo in droves now? Let the pro sports teams leave & see what happens .......

That's exactly right.

[Checkered24]

Originally Posted by jblake78728

Prior to those stadiums being built downtown Cleveland was as bad (if not worse) than downtown Buffalo. Building the stadium is only part of the solution, you also need to upgrade the downtown entertainment & lodging in what would become the stadium district. A new stadium (with the other upgrades) could help revitalize what is now pretty much a ghost town. Look at the revitalization of Pittsburgh. It was largely done in conjunction with Hines Field & PNC Park ..... in the 3 Rivers Stadium day's Pittsburgh's downtown was a mess ..... now it is a blue print for rebirth of the rust belt cities.

Of course we can always run the Bills & Sabres out of WNY (as you seem to advocate) & watch Buffalo turn into Flint, Michigan or Toledo, Ohio. You think people are leaving Buffalo in droves now? Let the pro sports teams leave & see what happens .......

Very good points. Having sports teams downtown are not the only ingredient to revitalizing a downtown. However, they do help too since they bring people into downtown.

Pittsburgh is definitely a model! The "North Shore" is terrific these days, where their new stadiums are built. They have the sports stadiums down there, a number of clubs/bars. The Andy Warhol museum. New Office buildings, a new hotel or two. It is impressive.

[Hotlanta2]

Originally Posted by Checkered24

Watching the local news tonight, they said there are uncomfirmed reports the Bills are consulting with a stadium design firm.

If this is true, I would wonder whether the location they are thinking of is in WNY or Southern Ontario.

I think in Buffalo, you could make a downtown stadium work. Yes, tailgate parties are a big part of the Bills experience for some. Our downtown is not Manhattan. You could still tailgate at any number of surface lots. Plus, the Bills were not always in Orchard Park. The history started at Best and Jefferson, which isn't exactly the country.

The thing is, I am just not sure why a new stadium would be necessary. It would be nice to have a modern facility with a dome, or retractable dome, or whatever (from a season ticket holder's point of view anyway... I'd prefer to be warm and dry and watch good football, than the cold one way wind swept rain strewn mess we see late in the season). Still, "The Ralph" has plenty of luxury suites now, plenty of seats, and is still in good condition.

I just do not see a new football stadium being built for them. The state has no money, local governments have no money....

I grew up in Buffalo. I now live in Pittsburgh (not liking it!) but I wanted to give my opinion on the stadium situation. Having the stadium WAY on in Orchad Park was always a bad mistake. It belongs downtown. How can Buffalo ever recover even a little if everything is moved and taken away? What's the point of even going downtown?
The stadium belongs downtown. Look at Pittsburgh, the place is booming now. Why? Because they have put everything downtown and people are moving there in doves because the jobs have come back. Pittsburgh downtown is very nice and has plenty to do now. Buffalo should put all the good stuff downtown.
The only two changes I would make about downtown is either move the Main Street stretch of the railway system because we all know that as soon as they closed Main Street, well, lets just say it was like putting the final nail in it's coffin. The other is I'd have a small UNDERGROUND mall (like they have in colder areas) downtown because in the winter, who is going to go downtown to shop if it's snowing? Unless they built an indoor mall with free parking! And it really needs to have stores that are not easily found in the suburban malls.
I was just at the Walden Galleria this past weekend and it has really turned itself around. For a while there it appeared as though the mall was headed for destruction. When I worked there stores were closing and being replaced with ghetto stores. Now they have added a ton of nice stores and new restaurants. The Galleria has saved itself.
I wish Buffalo would take a cue from places like Toronto, Minneapolis and other cold climate places and build to suit the weather.
Also, why are there so many silos still along the waterfront that are not being used? Keep a couple, make them into lofts or a place of learning and tea the rest down that litter the waterfront.
If Buffalo is to change, then it needs to let go of the past and look to the future.
As far as jobs go -- I don't even know where to begin. If people who have the money are moving their businesses elsewhere, that's a problem. I don't know the business climate well enough to comment on it. I would love to move back home (Amherst area) because not many places have as much to offer as Buffalo has. But the lack of jobs and keeping the jobs that are already there is a problem. Are there even any corporate headquarters there?

[Hotlanta2]

Originally Posted by italiancanuck89

To do this right, it would have to be downtown and it would have to be a retractable roof so, it could hold year-round events. Hotels, restaurants, bars and many other businesses would fair greatly as a result of the added activity. The people of Buffalo would find a way to make ends meet because that's what we do here. I'm all for it!

I agree!!!!! A DOME is the ONLY way to go. The possibilities are endless and yes, we could start hosting things like the Superbowl then.

[Checkered24]

Originally Posted by Hotlanta2

I grew up in Buffalo. I now live in Pittsburgh (not liking it!) but I wanted to give my opinion on the stadium situation. Having the stadium WAY on in Orchad Park was always a bad mistake. It belongs downtown. How can Buffalo ever recover even a little if everything is moved and taken away? What's the point of even going downtown?
The stadium belongs downtown. Look at Pittsburgh, the place is booming now. Why? Because they have put everything downtown and people are moving there in doves because the jobs have come back. Pittsburgh downtown is very nice and has plenty to do now. Buffalo should put all the good stuff downtown.
The only two changes I would make about downtown is either move the Main Street stretch of the railway system because we all know that as soon as they closed Main Street, well, lets just say it was like putting the final nail in it's coffin. The other is I'd have a small UNDERGROUND mall (like they have in colder areas) downtown because in the winter, who is going to go downtown to shop if it's snowing? Unless they built an indoor mall with free parking! And it really needs to have stores that are not easily found in the suburban malls.
I was just at the Walden Galleria this past weekend and it has really turned itself around. For a while there it appeared as though the mall was headed for destruction. When I worked there stores were closing and being replaced with ghetto stores. Now they have added a ton of nice stores and new restaurants. The Galleria has saved itself.
I wish Buffalo would take a cue from places like Toronto, Minneapolis and other cold climate places and build to suit the weather.
Also, why are there so many silos still along the waterfront that are not being used? Keep a couple, make them into lofts or a place of learning and tea the rest down that litter the waterfront.
If Buffalo is to change, then it needs to let go of the past and look to the future.
As far as jobs go -- I don't even know where to begin. If people who have the money are moving their businesses elsewhere, that's a problem. I don't know the business climate well enough to comment on it. I would love to move back home (Amherst area) because not many places have as much to offer as Buffalo has. But the lack of jobs and keeping the jobs that are already there is a problem. Are there even any corporate headquarters there?

I think you make some good points, but it is a bit more complicated in some instances too.

The stadium is a tough subject, since the Bills consistantly say they are not interested. Ralph Wilson wants the team to be as valuable as possible when he dies so his kids can maximize their profit on it's sale. Currently, the team has no debt for a stadium (or any debt really), and a year by year lease agreement which can be easily broken. A new stadium would mean big financing debt for any portion not publically subsidized, and a long term lease tying the team to a small market. Both would substantially hurt the franchises value on the open market. Besides that, our city and county government have both gone bankrupt recently, and the state is out of cash. I do not see the necessary public financing showing up for such a project anyway.

Would it be a nice asset for downtown Buffalo? Absolutely. I just don't really see it happening, especially when the current facility is still considered adequate.

PS, I really like what Pittsburgh did in building PNC and Heinze to replace Three Rivers, and the other enhancements in that area.

Agree that the Galleria enhancements are nice.

The silos: They are just so darn expensive to take down, private industry isn't interested in doing it. Plus, a couple have been refurbished and are operative again, and there are some business people who think it could be a trend that spreads to some more silos as alternative energy picks up speed.

Jobs. That is a tough one. Not a lot of new business growth. We don't have any major corporate headquarters like PNC, PPG, etc, as Pittsburgh does. We do have M&T bank which has become a rather large regional bank, and also have a large presence by HSBC bank. Geico has a regional call center in the area. Most jobs are still government however, and I believe UB is the areas biggest employer these days. We do have some growth in our medical corridor, with a lot of activity in bio-informatics.

[aurorawatcher]

They can't leave fast enough for me. They are the biggest waste of taxpayers dollar's there is.

[gonetoelpaso]

Originally Posted by aurorawatcher

They can't leave fast enough for me. They are the biggest waste of taxpayers dollar's there is.

and the Buffalo area will be broken beyond repair