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Actually, the premise is "I want to move because of my school district" said the OP in regards to seeking a place in Williamsville versus remaining at their home in Cheektowaga.
Are you suggesting that you cannot test yourself? Go to the library, pick up a book on Calculus, work through the problems with solutions and check your work. Reason over your solution, find the discrepancies and learn from them. If you find that you still don't understand, find another book, heck, even talk with someone who teaches Calculus. You can sit in a Calculus class at Yale and not "get it" either. Your point being?
My point is that the 1st ring burbs that claimed to be exclusive because of school rankings no longer have this position based on BizFirst rankings. The first ring suburbs that thought they were going to be exclusive forever are now having a go at decline in test scores and therefore the market will decline (as the premise was "quality" schooling") as it has been doing so for some time now. Starting at points just outside of Buffalo is where the decline is most evident and this is spreading, slowly but surely.
Sure, if you don't think your kid is "smart enough" (based on those same credentials you claim to give merit to aka standardized testing) to get in to City Honors, or Hutch Tech or DaVinci, then by all means, seek "lower" ground.
If you don't seek out BPS the case still exists for private schooling and living in Buffalo.
Anyhow, I've made the case multiple times and the numbers support my argument (at 3 kids it is borderline but not by much and you still have the exclusivity of private school. 4 or more children would not support the private school argument).
Actually, the premise is "I want to move because of my school district" said the OP in regards to seeking a place in Williamsville versus remaining at their home in Cheektowaga.
Are you suggesting that you cannot test yourself? Go to the library, pick up a book on Calculus, work through the problems with solutions and check your work. Reason over your solution, find the discrepancies and learn from them. If you find that you still don't understand, find another book, heck, even talk with someone who teaches Calculus. You can sit in a Calculus class at Yale and not "get it" either. Your point being?
My point is that the 1st ring burbs that claimed to be exclusive because of school rankings no longer have this position based on BizFirst rankings. The first ring suburbs that thought they were going to be exclusive forever are now having a go at decline in test scores and therefore the market will decline (as the premise was "quality" schooling") as it has been doing so for some time now. Starting at points just outside of Buffalo is where the decline is most evident and this is spreading, slowly but surely.
Sure, if you don't think your kid is "smart enough" (based on those same credentials you claim to give merit to aka standardized testing) to get in to City Honors, or Hutch Tech or DaVinci, then by all means, seek "lower" ground.
If you don't seek out BPS the case still exists for private schooling and living in Buffalo.
Anyhow, I've made the case multiple times and the numbers support my argument (at 3 kids it is borderline but not by much and you still have the exclusivity of private school. 4 or more children would not support the private school argument).
I'm not suggesting you cant test yourself, sure you can, but what are you going to do take those results to a job interview? Seriously.
Amherst CSD has slipped in the BizFirst rankings since 2008 but don't take my word for it, Google it. Of course, if you look at the school report cards, they will tell you how many kids are passing regents exams, but they don't tell you how many kids are offered them.
This is not true for elementary school state exams, they do indeed tell you how many students are in each grade level and how many took the exam, simple math skills will help you figure out if everyone in that grade took the exam. And they tell you their race, if they are learning disabled, English learners and how many students tested were economically disadvantaged. For high school, it is state requirement that all students take Regents exams or RCT's to graduate. If you took some time and actually looked up the info for yourself instead of repeating the same lines over and over about Bizfirst you would discover there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Amherst Central School district and they are above average, and way above in some subjects when compared with the rest of the state. For the 2011-2012 school year Amherst Central High School had 60% of their graduates receive the Regents Diploma with Advanced Designation, students took more course exams than required and 89% of their graduates went onto college. And another positive for this district, out of 237 seniors, 229 graduated. Williamsville beats their numbers with 69% receiving the advanced designation diploma and 96% went onto college.
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Originally Posted by genoobie
So, there is a disincentive for schools wanting to look good on paper to not offer kids challenging, "non-required" coursework for fear that they may fail. Just compare numbers of kids taking non-required regents to required regents and that will give you some idea of how the school tracks kids.
Regents are required in the ACD and there were no non-regents exams for high school students given in that district during the 2011-12 school year. The students who are disabled also took the regents exams unlike other district schools who give RCT's to disabled students. And they even publish the test scores of their English as a Second language scores, which are really great in comparison to anything coming out of Buffalo.
This is not true for elementary school state exams, they do indeed tell you how many students are in each grade level and how many took the exam, simple math skills will help you figure out if everyone in that grade took the exam. And they tell you their race, if they are learning disabled, English learners and how many students tested were economically disadvantaged. For high school, it is state requirement that all students take Regents exams or RCT's to graduate. If you took some time and actually looked up the info for yourself instead of repeating the same lines over and over about Bizfirst you would discover there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Amherst Central School district and they are above average, and way above in some subjects when compared with the rest of the state.
Never made a claim regarding the "absolute" standing of a district. However, if exam scores are declining relative to previous levels and if real estate is based on a tired "good schools" mantra (which, incidentally means you cannot have your cake and eat it too...live by the sword, die by the sword) then you will see a relative decline in real estate prices. Has been going on for a few years now as the "growth" and "competition" are in 2nd ring burbs for the most part (and some gentrification in parts of Buffalo)
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For the 2011-2012 school year Amherst Central High School had 60% of their graduates receive the Regents Diploma with Advanced Designation, students took more course exams than required and 89% of their graduates went onto college. And another positive for this district, out of 237 seniors, 229 graduated. Williamsville beats their numbers with 69% receiving the advanced designation diploma and 96% went onto college.
Not really relevant. Percent receiving free and reduced lunch is climbing in ASD. Test scores are declining in some subject areas at both the Middle School and High School level. Say what you will, I wouldn't put my money on that horse. My guess? As wealthy residents move out of Amherst and find their way to "better investments" because of climbing or superior scores on tests, we will see a demographic shift. Not saying that Amherst isn't a fine place to live, not saying that Amherst schools are poor. I am saying that significant parts are overvalued based on how regions are marketed.
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Regents are required in the ACD and there were no non-regents exams for high school students given in that district during the 2011-12 school year. The students who are disabled also took the regents exams unlike other district schools who give RCT's to disabled students. And they even publish the test scores of their English as a Second language scores, which are really great in comparison to anything coming out of Buffalo.
You should do your research. RCT's are no longer given, cannot be, that's state law. I would say that City Honors is a comparable school to Amherst (although City Honors has a higher number of free and reduced lunch students as well as a greater ELL / minority enrollment) and absolutely clobbers Amherst Central on test scores.
Again, I don't give a rats behind about test scores because they mean NOTHING as far as educating children. However, for all the folks on the message board and realtors alike who push their product by saying "ooh la dee dah schools because we have good test scores" it's a tired old mantra that belongs in a closest with whalebone corsets, leisure suits and other outmoded ways of thinking.
Never made a claim regarding the "absolute" standing of a district. However, if exam scores are declining relative to previous levels and if real estate is based on a tired "good schools" mantra (which, incidentally means you cannot have your cake and eat it too...live by the sword, die by the sword) then you will see a relative decline in real estate prices. Has been going on for a few years now as the "growth" and "competition" are in 2nd ring burbs for the most part (and some gentrification in parts of Buffalo)
Read the Real Estate Transactions section of the paper and watch the prices increase in various areas of Tonawanda and Amherst weekly, monthly and yearly. Attend the county auctions when property in 14226 goes up on the block and watch the insanity. I have been involved in property in Western NY for 6 years now and I'm seeing more lower level middle class families priced out of everything in former neighborhoods that catered to families of their income level.
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Percent receiving free and reduced lunch is climbing in ASD. Test scores are declining in some subject areas at both the Middle School and High School level.
You like 2nd ring Lancaster, well that area has a higher percentage of children receiving free and reduced lunch, 17% and increasing every year, ACD is stable at 9%.
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You should do your research. RCT's are no longer given, cannot be, that's state law. I would say that City Honors is a comparable school to Amherst (although City Honors has a higher number of free and reduced lunch students as well as a greater ELL / minority enrollment) and absolutely clobbers Amherst Central on test scores.
I have done my research, the BPS students in Special Ed and some General Ed were still taking RCT's last year and the students scores were horrible compared to the Special Ed students in Amherst who took a regular Regents exam lol. Have a look for yourself. https://reportcards.nysed.gov/school...2968&year=2012
City Honors only has 101 seats for 12th graders out of a district with over 2,050 12th graders. I wonder how many more students would be successful at that school if the district opened up a few more seats.
Anecdotal evidence, I use census tract changes and the median home value in the first ring burbs is flat or declining relative to inflation. Furthermore, median income in those areas is also on the decline. Meaning that either people are retiring and nobody is moving in and / or the people who are moving in are not bringing money with them. Look at census data then compare that to inflation for the same period. Similarly the 2nd ring burbs are not suffering from this effect. The picture is grim for Tonawanda, Amherst, West Seneca, et. al. Point is these first ring burbs were marketed with a "schools and safety" mantra. That stability is becoming questionable.
Students who enter after Sept. 2011 are no longer eligible for RCT examinations. Period. SpEd are pretty much taking Regents with a "safety net". There is a large discrepancy between the SpEd designation in Amherst and the regular ed population. It's a bit revealing regarding the demographic shift in these areas.
Actually the data I was looking at for Amherst High School shows that the FRL designation increased from 11 to 14 to 16% from 08-09 to 11-12, so I don't know what data you are examining. The report I referenced can be found here on the NYSED site.
Furthermore, for the same time period Lancaster High School is steady at 7 and 8 percent. Same site.
Lastly, if you are pointing out that City Honors would not perform as well if they opened enrollment, that is likely true. My response is, so what? In one case the exclusivity happens through property values, in the other, the exclusivity occurs from standardized testing which tracks income. At least in the second scenario there is a chance that someone without means can enter said "good school" where in the former case the chance is based PURELY on income. Look at the census data.
However, if you compare like to like, given socioeconomic (where City Honors has about 33% FRL designation) the results at CH are comparable or better than Amherst. Yes, no kidding that the OVERALL results in Buffalo are worse than Amherst, but that comparison is not like for like. There are many schools in Buffalo.
Finally, I'll say it again. I don't care where people live. Most areas have pros and cons. However, to say "Uh oh, you better stay away from Buffalo because of schools and it's not safe." That's a tired and old mindset. But that's what many posters on the message board do when someone asks about moving to Buffalo if they have a family.
If it were me, and I were house shopping, I would not trust my investment in areas that were marketed with a semi-stable statistic.
Read the Real Estate Transactions section of the paper and watch the prices increase in various areas of Tonawanda and Amherst weekly, monthly and yearly. Attend the county auctions when property in 14226 goes up on the block and watch the insanity. I have been involved in property in Western NY for 6 years now and I'm seeing more lower level middle class families priced out of everything in former neighborhoods that catered to families of their income level.
This is very true. My brother and SIL bought a little house around NFB and Harvard/Yale (it's one of those Ivy League streets) years ago just to get into the ACSD. They probably couldn't afford to purchase that same house today. If they decide to sell (it has lots of stairs and they're getting older), they'll make a tidy profit.
The same with Tonawanda where those little post-WW II cape cods have become incredibly popular with first time home buyers.
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Originally Posted by gwgirl80
City Honors only has 101 seats for 12th graders out of a district with over 2,050 12th graders. I wonder how many more students would be successful at that school if the district opened up a few more seats.
This is my biggest issue with the BPS and its cheerleaders. CH is held up as this great school that "proves" children can get a good education in the BPS except that the reality is that CH serves only about 5% of Buffalo public school students, all of them top students and many of them politically connected. Any school can look good when it's made up of the top 5% of the district's students!
Furthermore, since City Honors actually starts in 5th grade, there are many fewer than 100 seats actually open for incoming 9th graders. When I was teaching in Buffalo years ago, the number was generally about 20 open slots annually. Most Buffalo parents, unless they were dissatisfied with their current k-8 school, wouldn't be thinking of sending their children to new schools in 5th grade.
So Linda_D, you prefer exclusion based on income where kids cannot attend the "best" schools because their parents cannot afford to live there?
Incidentally, it's not just City Honors that has decent numbers (if you give a crap about that nonsense). Anyhow, can you post those large gains for everyone to see how property values are climbing against inflation? I use census data to base my claims.
Nearly EVERY census tract immediately outside of Buffalo has posted negative median income, while 2nd ring burbs are all on the rise.
Say what you will I would be very careful about buying in 1st ring burbs who predicated their existence on exclusivity and "good" schools and as the latter is changing so will the former.
Furthermore, since City Honors actually starts in 5th grade, there are many fewer than 100 seats actually open for incoming 9th graders. When I was teaching in Buffalo years ago, the number was generally about 20 open slots annually. Most Buffalo parents, unless they were dissatisfied with their current k-8 school, wouldn't be thinking of sending their children to new schools in 5th grade.
I always wondered how many seats were open for new students, it's really sad when you think of it being so few who get the golden ticket.
I always wondered how many seats were open for new students, it's really sad when you think of it being so few who get the golden ticket.
Spare me the boo-hoo. You support a two-tiered system by marketing neighborhoods as some being better than others based on exclusivity and "good schools" nonsense. Then you turn around and decry the same two-tiered system in Buffalo. Oh, "it's sad really...the golden ticket". Maybe it's equally sad that so few in the region can partake of the "golden ticket" offered by Clarence, Williamsville, East Aurora, Iroquois and Orchard Park.
Better yet, sucker clients and sell them a bill of goods rather than honestly inform them about their investment potential in first ring burbs.
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