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So Linda_D, you prefer exclusion based on income where kids cannot attend the "best" schools because their parents cannot afford to live there?
Incidentally, it's not just City Honors that has decent numbers (if you give a crap about that nonsense). Anyhow, can you post those large gains for everyone to see how property values are climbing against inflation? I use census data to base my claims.
Nearly EVERY census tract immediately outside of Buffalo has posted negative median income, while 2nd ring burbs are all on the rise.
Say what you will I would be very careful about buying in 1st ring burbs who predicated their existence on exclusivity and "good" schools and as the latter is changing so will the former.
Save your fake indignation for somebody who might fall for your drama, genoobie. I taught in Buffalo. I lived in the city of Buffalo for 20 years. Exclusion or inclusion by income, by ethnicity, by race, by political connections has been the norm in Buffalo for at least a century, and continues today. The children of city politicians and other individuals with connections to City Hall never end up going to Grover or Lafayette or East or any other failing school just like the side streets from off Nottingham Terrace always get plowed first after a bad snowstorm.
Your point being that you are comfortable with some kinds of exclusion (as in not being able to afford expensive housing) but not okay with other kinds of exclusion (based on standardized testing; aka income). It's the SAME exclusion.
Save it Linda_D, your blissfully ignorant view of the suburban America as some kind of egalitarian utopia is so farcical that Ringling Bros is going to put in the act.
In the meantime, live wherever you want. The mantra of "good schooling" as a fact dispensatory and testing as a means to check if those facts have been dispensed is irrelevant in today's day and age. As long as it still sells houses and keeps neighborhoods exclusive though, that's OK with you...
Your point being that you are comfortable with some kinds of exclusion (as in not being able to afford expensive housing) but not okay with other kinds of exclusion (based on standardized testing; aka income). It's the SAME exclusion.
Save it Linda_D, your blissfully ignorant view of the suburban America as some kind of egalitarian utopia is so farcical that Ringling Bros is going to put in the act.
In the meantime, live wherever you want. The mantra of "good schooling" as a fact dispensatory and testing as a means to check if those facts have been dispensed is irrelevant in today's day and age. As long as it still sells houses and keeps neighborhoods exclusive though, that's OK with you...
Standardized testing is exclusion? Income is exclusion? What do you propose we give everyone A's and somehow pay all families equally? That's called communism. I see where you are coming from and you cant be reasoned with. That's fostering a generation of lazy and entitled idiots, this is America so get with the damn program you have to work HARD to make it here.
Haha, right, sounds like you bit that right off of some Rush Limbaugh talk show segment.
1) I never said that everyone should get "A's".
2) I never suggested that people ought to be lazy and not work hard.
3) I never suggested communism.
4) Success on standardized testing does not equal being educated.
Finally, I am also realistic in saying that some people are born into their wealth and do NOTHING to earn it. So no, not everyone has to work "HARD" to make it here. Additionally, I understand that luck is a factor. Anyone who thinks that luck doesn't play a part in this is sadly mistaken. Finally, you have banks giving out loans to people who don't deserve it (both rich and poor) and everyone else who is actually working has to support that kind of financing (even though most of that money will disappear and the banks will ask for bailouts). Personally, I'd rather not see "luck" involved in a system that determines someone's livelihood and ability to subsist for basic needs.
And yes, standardized testing is used for exclusionary purposes just as is income is.
Ok, so what? Those born into it had someone in an earlier generation work hard to enable leaving money to their kids, or grandchildren, you go back as far as you want and eventually someone did something big. Standardized tests are for evaluation, so what if you do so ****ty and cant get into a top school or do what you want in life? To your point, you can fail out of school and still be successful in this country, you could be a HS dropout and make billions...anything can happen and its up to you. I don't care where you came from, where you went to school, how good or bad you did or what your parents did, there are plenty of examples of successful people whose parents had money or those who didn't.
If people are left behind, don't get ahead...are poor etc....who cares? This is life.
And don't forget that the more disadvantaged you are, the poorer your parents are, if you are a woman or a minority or both...you are first in line by way of affirmative action. Colleges have quotas and so do companies they have to fill, this is a huge incentive and opportunity for people to get ahead despite their circumstances and even leave college debt free afterwards. The opportunities are there for all, I've been around the world and seen poverty that is impossible to get out of, think of war torn countries, third world...those are the truly disadvantaged and deserve help...not the lazy, entitled welfare pieces of trash in the BPS.
Your point being that you are comfortable with some kinds of exclusion (as in not being able to afford expensive housing) but not okay with other kinds of exclusion (based on standardized testing; aka income). It's the SAME exclusion.
Save it Linda_D, your blissfully ignorant view of the suburban America as some kind of egalitarian utopia is so farcical that Ringling Bros is going to put in the act.
In the meantime, live wherever you want. The mantra of "good schooling" as a fact dispensatory and testing as a means to check if those facts have been dispensed is irrelevant in today's day and age. As long as it still sells houses and keeps neighborhoods exclusive though, that's OK with you...
And what is it called when a school system hand picks a few hundred kids to get a great HS education (City Honors, Hutch Tech, Performing Arts, etc) while the majority of HSers get a mediocre or worse education? Are you claiming that Grover, Lafayette, and East are as good as Buffalo's "selective" high schools?
I call it unfair. It's a rigged system intended to segregate upper and middle class kids from the mass of poor Buffalo school children with only a token percentage of poor kids "qualifying" for the schools like City Honors and Hutch Tech. It's been that way for a century. The only difference is that it's not race or ethnicity that's the primary determinant of who gets to go to the best Buffalo public schools these days but which parents are politically connected or know how to work the system best.
Furthermore, your assumption that all suburban families are even middle class demonstrates your own ignorance and prejudice. Sheridan Park area of Tonawanda parts of the Sweethome Road area, and large areas of the older parts of Cheektowaga, West Seneca, and even Blaisdell as well as the cities of Tonawanda, North Tonawanda, and Lackawanna are full of people living there on Section 8 vouchers. Those kids go to the same schools as all the other kids in those areas attend without having to "test" into "selective schools".
And what is it called when a school system hand picks a few hundred kids to get a great HS education (City Honors, Hutch Tech, Performing Arts, etc) while the majority of HSers get a mediocre or worse education? Are you claiming that Grover, Lafayette, and East are as good as Buffalo's "selective" high schools?
I call it unfair. It's a rigged system intended to segregate upper and middle class kids from the mass of poor Buffalo school children with only a token percentage of poor kids "qualifying" for the schools like City Honors and Hutch Tech. It's been that way for a century. The only difference is that it's not race or ethnicity that's the primary determinant of who gets to go to the best Buffalo public schools these days but which parents are politically connected or know how to work the system best.
Furthermore, your assumption that all suburban families are even middle class demonstrates your own ignorance and prejudice. Sheridan Park area of Tonawanda parts of the Sweethome Road area, and large areas of the older parts of Cheektowaga, West Seneca, and even Blaisdell as well as the cities of Tonawanda, North Tonawanda, and Lackawanna are full of people living there on Section 8 vouchers. Those kids go to the same schools as all the other kids in those areas attend without having to "test" into "selective schools".
So then you want your cake and eat it too? Which is it Linda_D? Are first ring suburbs affordable and thus declining in value as test scores decline because people who have less advantaged background don't do as well on standardized tests? Or are first ring burbs in bidding wars with property values climbing and thus exclusive?
Amherst is a suburb of almost 160K people. Tell me Linda_D how much section 8 housing is available in Amherst?
Haha, you make me laugh. Hutch Tech has a free and reduced lunch rate of 75%. It's a Title I school. Tell me again about the "token few". DaVinci is in the same boat. There's no suburban school even comparable in terms of demographic.
Free Reduced Lunch
Amherst - 15%
North Ton High School 12%
West Sen (East) - 13%
West Sen (West) - 14%
Sweet Home - 20%
CleveHill, Cheektowaga Central - 30%
And guess which suburb always come in dead last, just before Buffalo in the "rankings"
Lackawanna - 80%
Right Linda_D, tell me lies again about those suburbs just stuffed with poor people on section 8.
Yes, Linda_D, I am telling you that almost all schools are very similar. The difference is how schools are judged based on standardized test scores. Give it a rest already, you prefer exclusion based on income that leads to geographic segregation. I really don't care but don't make up some egalitarian BS to substantiate your point.
Yes, poor kids are excluded. Your chest-thumping about the injustice occurring within a district is laughable given that the problem is ubiquitous in many places in America.
Ok, so what? Those born into it had someone in an earlier generation work hard to enable leaving money to their kids, or grandchildren, you go back as far as you want and eventually someone did something big. Standardized tests are for evaluation, so what if you do so ****ty and cant get into a top school or do what you want in life? To your point, you can fail out of school and still be successful in this country, you could be a HS dropout and make billions...anything can happen and its up to you. I don't care where you came from, where you went to school, how good or bad you did or what your parents did, there are plenty of examples of successful people whose parents had money or those who didn't.
If people are left behind, don't get ahead...are poor etc....who cares? This is life.
You almost had my respect. Then you added this garbage...
Quote:
not the lazy, entitled welfare pieces of trash in the BPS.
As if the lazy, entitled welfare pieces of trash existed ONLY in BPS.
I'm not against people EARNING more if they work hard or do something ingenious. Not at all.
In fact, I agree with you regarding poverty not being an excuse to be uneducated. Finally, I also agree with you regarding "it's up to you".
However, there are people on the MB who routinely suggest to prospective transplants, "Oh don't move to Buffalo the schools are terrible."
What should really be said is by those people is "Don't move to Buffalo there are lots of poor people who don't do well on standardized tests." There are lots of good things that go on in schools in Buffalo (and surrounding areas). But the idea that you should pick where to live based on an antiquated way of measuring "intelligence" is absurd. You want to live in a first ring suburb that is going to decline in value in the next ten to twenty years? Fine. Go ahead. Live wherever you WANT.
And yes, I agree "so what if you do ****ty..." Make something of yourself and don't be limited by what is mostly "taught" and "tested" in school.
So no, not everyone has to work "HARD" to make it here. Additionally, I understand that luck is a factor. Anyone who thinks that luck doesn't play a part in this is sadly mistaken.
And yes, standardized testing is used for exclusionary purposes just as is income is.
I take some of your info as above, genoobie.
Aren't you the person who "says" he teaches in Buffalo? Did luck get you in? Or did you know someone?
Quality in teaching was always a job and not luck when I started . Buffalo was not easy to get into. (Joe Manch was Superintendent) First you needed a good GPA to apply and a NY state certified BSEd. Then from 8 am to 3 pm on a Sat: taking, the NTE (National Teachers Exam), a Buffalo written subject area exam -- and, if you passed all, several months later, you had a professional interview with an administrator, your supervisor and an older teacher in your field. Then came a teacher list... a list only good for 2 years and then you had to repeat it if not hired for probationary status. You got on the list, you hoped you'd be hired and you worked on your Masters at the same time..... Then came the "PC" part of hiring -- dump the test, hire 2 for 1 ( majority for minority in fields you could, when they banned the tests as racist). The teachers who were already hired -- majority OR minority -- all were livid. It became a virtual open revolving door for teachers.
So, you figure you got lucky and that no one should have standardized tests to qualify for the job as well?
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I see where you are coming from and you cant be reasoned with. 
That's fostering a generation of lazy and entitled idiots, this is America so get with the damn program you have to work HARD to make it here.
