Buffalo schools in City Budget (Union, Ira: middle-class, health insurance, house)

[FedupWNY]

I was a little shocked to find this in Buffalo's most recent budget:

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

I was a little shocked to find this in Buffalo's most recent budget:

WHY? Why are you surprised to see that on the budget?

[chrisruns2far]

I'm not surprised at all. Unfortunately, it is the same in most parts of the country in which the Public School Teacher Unions have become so powerful that they can basically demand the nations most expensive administrative and salary packages and also have the best benefits package that money can buy. I'm not anti-union or anti-public education, but the Teachers Unions have gone too far and the costs have become more that the middle-class can bear to pay for such lucrative, costly and un-sustainable salaries and benefits. If only the rest of us could have the health and retirement benefits package as a public school teacher. I have teacher friends who will retire in the next 5-10 years at a salary at or ABOVE what they now make, in which the rest of us have helped pay for thru publically financed 401K contributions and/or matches. Yet another indicator of what Universal Health Care would do for economics of the middle-class, in which we would all have adequate health care benefis and majority of us would not have to pay for a smaller minorities over-enflated benefits that are far greater than what the public as a whole could ever have. I'm all for teachers making a living-wage and paid for their higher education, but not at such obsene levels that go so much far and above what the average citizen makes in any given community, with 2-3 months vacation to boot.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

WHY? Why are you surprised to see that on the budget?

I just never realized the Board of Education is 68% of appropriations.

It's one area I'm not too familiar with but it's astonishing to note that their total is $661,183,712 - 13x higher than our police which is under a wage freeze.

chrisruns2far, I've heard people talk about it but I'm just like this seeing our Buffalo budget. People make a stink about how the police are still fighting to get raises. With totals like these, we should have one of the best educational systems in the nation, sadly we don't though.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Schools have been under a 4 year year wage freeze, FYI.

Schools funding is not only the teachers, it is the support staff ( aides, secretaries), everything about buildings (including heat), buses and all the staff for them - drivers& aides, as well as the gas for the buses , supplies, custodial staff, cafeteria, all the special ed ( beleive me, about 20% -- if not more -- get some special ed service), the sports & coaches, every advisor to a club ( HS paid only)... and much more.

Yep, I taught in Buffalo. The person (chris) who thinks a pension is "above" a salary is drinking koolaid. A pension is a % based on years of service, averaged on 3 ( or for people hired before early May 1971 , 5 years ) average. [You can go on the state Teachers Retirement system and look up salaries and pensions] You can also look up what teachers put into their retirement to add to it (** and remember that we also pay taxes and, in so doing, support our own retirement). I put in every cent I could into my retirement and into a 403(b) [that is like an IRA for public employees I/ works the same way].

Know what? I am NOT rich. I am retired. So is my husband We don't overspend, live in the house he bought in the early 1970s. We go on vacation maybe once a year.... Rich? Who are you kidding? OTOH, We have friends who have multiple pensions: Armed Services, Teaching, and private companies. They are -- to us -- rich.

Don't speak of what you do not understand and also, who said you could not have pursued a teaching or other public career? I bet you wouldn't be whining then. BTW, I started at less than $8K/year. It should give you an idea when I started.

[chrisruns2far]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

Schools have been under a 4 year year wage freeze, FYI.

Schools funding is not only the teachers, it is the support staff ( aides, secretaries), everything about buildings (including heat), buses and all the staff for them - drivers& aides, as well as the gas for the buses , supplies, custodial staff, cafeteria, all the special ed ( beleive me, about 20% -- if not more -- get some special ed service), the sports & coaches, every advisor to a club ( HS paid only)... and much more.

Yep, I taught in Buffalo. The person (chris) who thinks a pension is "above" a salary is drinking koolaid. A pension is a % based on years of service, averaged on 3 ( or for people hired before early May 1971 , 5 years ) average. [You can go on the state Teachers Retirement system and look up salaries and pensions] You can also look up what teachers put into their retirement to add to it (** and remember that we also pay taxes and, in so doing, support our own retirement). I put in every cent I could into my retirement and into a 403(b) [that is like an IRA for public employees I/ works the same way].

Know what? I am NOT rich. I am retired. So is my husband We don't overspend, live in the house he bought in the early 1970s. We go on vacation maybe once a year.... Rich? Who are you kidding? OTOH, We have friends who have multiple pensions: Armed Services, Teaching, and private companies. They are -- to us -- rich.

Don't speak of what you do not understand and also, who said you could not have pursued a teaching or other public career? I bet you wouldn't be whining then. BTW, I started at less than $8K/year. It should give you an idea when I started.

I apologize if my comments have upset you. FYI, have always voted to support any school levy that came my way no matter where I have lived and I am not familiar with the Buffalo School District retirement plan, I was speaking of other locations and districts in which I have lived and I should have qualified my post with that info. I always appreciate your posts on this site and I am relocatiing back to WNY in the spring to be near my extended family and help take care of my Mom and Dad, who need my help. What I should have said is that in certain places within this country, public school teachers unions have negoitiated a system in which they have been gauranteed a certain rate of return (8% in Oregon for example) on their retirement investments irregardless of the current performance of any stocks or funds in the state investment portfolio. This is what I was tryinig to speak to that is unsustainable and way over and above what any of us in the private sector could ever hope for. Once again, I'm not aware of what the Buffalo benefits package consists of, so please accept my apology for lumping you and other Buffalo Teachers into what has occured elsewhere. While I support public school teachers and the work that they do, I do feel that certain administrative costs and number of administrative staff often times consumes a higher percentage of the budget than necessary. I am all for teacher salaries and educational programs being well funded, but I feel that in the name of fairness, equality and economic sustainablilty that Health and Retirement benefits should be arbitrated to match of be within a certain range of what the general population is subject to. Civilization costs money and I will always be glad to support and pay taxes for the common good and vital services, but certain costs need to be examined more closely. To get on my Univerasl Health Care soapbox once again, if we had Universal Health Care, much of what I have just said would become irrelivant.

[FedupWNY]

Schools funding is not only the teachers, it is the support staff ( aides, secretaries), everything about buildings (including heat), buses and all the staff for them - drivers& aides, as well as the gas for the buses , supplies, custodial staff, cafeteria, all the special ed ( beleive me, about 20% -- if not more -- get some special ed service), the sports & coaches, every advisor to a club ( HS paid only)... and much more.

This we know. As does the budgeting for police & fire covers more than just payroll. I never would have guessed though that the board of education takes up more than have in Buffalo's appropiations.

I too have always had support for teachers and the job they take on everyday, espeically in the cases of trying to teach student who simply don't want to learn. However, chrisruns2far in schools other than the Buffalo's Performing & Visual Arts, cut have been made to music, sports & arts programs. Mostly all of the "trade" schools have turned into "tech" ones. The teacher's aides are all but gone, school nurses are rotating from (upto) 3 different schools as per a 7 school day schedule.

Last year a school didn't have swim classes for the very reason that (quote) "the schools can't afford to staff a full time swim instructor". That was what I was told by many people within the BoE.

BuffaloTransplant, I apologize as well for my "" comment. I'm probably a little biased over the life long benefits teachers receive after retirement of which is part of the 68% in City of Buffalo appropiations. I really have come to appreciate the posts you make here in the NY forum, but I still think that with almost $662 million, we should have one of the best educational systems in the Nation and we don't.

[shibainu]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

Schools have been under a 4 year year wage freeze, FYI.

Schools funding is not only the teachers, it is the support staff ( aides, secretaries), everything about buildings (including heat), buses and all the staff for them - drivers& aides, as well as the gas for the buses , supplies, custodial staff, cafeteria, all the special ed ( beleive me, about 20% -- if not more -- get some special ed service), the sports & coaches, every advisor to a club ( HS paid only)... and much more.

Yep, I taught in Buffalo. The person (chris) who thinks a pension is "above" a salary is drinking koolaid. A pension is a % based on years of service, averaged on 3 ( or for people hired before early May 1971 , 5 years ) average. [You can go on the state Teachers Retirement system and look up salaries and pensions] You can also look up what teachers put into their retirement to add to it (** and remember that we also pay taxes and, in so doing, support our own retirement). I put in every cent I could into my retirement and into a 403(b) [that is like an IRA for public employees I/ works the same way].

Know what? I am NOT rich. I am retired. So is my husband We don't overspend, live in the house he bought in the early 1970s. We go on vacation maybe once a year.... Rich? Who are you kidding? OTOH, We have friends who have multiple pensions: Armed Services, Teaching, and private companies. They are -- to us -- rich.

Don't speak of what you do not understand and also, who said you could not have pursued a teaching or other public career? I bet you wouldn't be whining then. BTW, I started at less than $8K/year. It should give you an idea when I started.

Okay lets use your example of 1971 making 8k. 8k that will equal 41,271 adjusted for inflation in 2007 dollars . If it was 6k it was about 31k in todays dollars. Entry level pay for a teacher in NYS is currently $41,500.That is not much of an increase in the past 30+ years.

I do not think people understand that it seems like a lot of money and wages sound like they keep going up but the truth it is really our dollar that keeps going down.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by chrisruns2far

I apologize if my comments have upset you. FYI, have always voted to support any school levy that came my way no matter where I have lived and I am not familiar with the Buffalo School District retirement plan, I was speaking of other locations and districts in which I have lived and I should have qualified my post with that info. I always appreciate your posts on this site and I am relocatiing back to WNY in the spring to be near my extended family and help take care of my Mom and Dad, who need my help. What I should have said is that in certain places within this country, public school teachers unions have negoitiated a system in which they have been gauranteed a certain rate of return (8% in Oregon for example) on their retirement investments irregardless of the current performance of any stocks or funds in the state investment portfolio. This is what I was tryinig to speak to that is unsustainable and way over and above what any of us in the private sector could ever hope for. Once again, I'm not aware of what the Buffalo benefits package consists of, so please accept my apology for lumping you and other Buffalo Teachers into what has occured elsewhere. While I support public school teachers and the work that they do, I do feel that certain administrative costs and number of administrative staff often times consumes a higher percentage of the budget than necessary. I am all for teacher salaries and educational programs being well funded, but I feel that in the name of fairness, equality and economic sustainablilty that Health and Retirement benefits should be arbitrated to match of be within a certain range of what the general population is subject to. Civilization costs money and I will always be glad to support and pay taxes for the common good and vital services, but certain costs need to be examined more closely. To get on my Univerasl Health Care soapbox once again, if we had Universal Health Care, much of what I have just said would become irrelivant.

Not a problem. In NY, depending on when you started work, you paid into your retirement, had FICA taken out and/or got to save. I had to do the first 2 and chose to do the savings. I get my pension now; will take SS at 65 and will not draw from savings unless I need to.(Same w/my husband) The most you can get her is 75% of a salary for pension and it is after about 38 years work. Given I taught in a very LOW paying district, having a sole benefit after retirement was the equalizer for staying there -- we get health insurance up until medicare.

In many states in the US, teachers get a pension and it is reduced by $1 for every $2 of SS. I think that stinks; I am glad NY is not one of those states. (most are south and west). If you pay for SS and your pension, you should get them. Believe me, your friends are a major exception, not the rule.

We get no change on payment in our pension ( that is in all NYS) once they figure it, except COLA ( Like SS does) --and not until you are 65. If you leave a spouse a % of your retirement, and the spouse dies first, you lose that money. There are weird options like "popup": you take very little and then if the spuse dies, it "pops up".Most people take the maximum benefit. No one guarantees us any return like what you said is out west. You get what you retire with. Investments, you invest and hope they do well. No guarantee with those either.

I know couples where one person purposely taught in Buffalo knowing the benefit of healthcare and the spouse took a district which paid a significant amount more and had zero benefits. Most of them spent like fools with the extra salary and then, in retirement, many were back subbing. Not us.... we know what "budget" means.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Entry level here is significantly lower than $41K -- it is mid $30s