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Old 10-10-2016, 01:28 PM
 
56,307 posts, read 80,520,053 times
Reputation: 12425

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
No what I stated was those items which are controlled by the "state" not a municipality. A large amount of taxes, road tolls, gas prices, utilities are state regulated services. I will amend my last line to read Grand Rapids Fire Department (Budget 26 million) Vs Buffalo (Budget 4.8 Million) gee who's better funded.

It is about taxes, labor rates, excessive regulations if you want your state selected as a business location this is what a company will look at. Even Mississippi must suit some because Nissan is building cars there.
Again, I responded in kind, as the state was mentioned versus being Buffalo/Grand Rapids specific.

MS may get a car plant here or there, it still isn't a state that people generally think about in terms of economic growth in spite of lower costs.

I say that culture is being underestimated given the background of those with wealth in the area and the major companies in the area. It has one of the biggest Christian companies in terms of sales. It is has Gerber Company(baby products) based nearby and is a family company. It is also home to the Zondervan family of companies, which are Christian based and of a Dutch background, which isn't surprising given the strong Dutch Reformed culture in the area. This is why culture may be a factor in terms of the difference. Here is an article that touches on this point: Booming again: West Michigan's economy is on a roll | MLive.com


The results have been impressive: The Grand Rapids region is one of fastest growing economies in the country.
But replicating West Michigan's success elsewhere in Michigan may be difficult.
"I think there is a shared culture on the west side of the state that's as strong or stronger than other parts of the state," Ballard said.
A number of the region's leaders come from the same background, rooted in the waves of Dutch immigrants who began settling in the area in the 19th century. By 1900, 40 percent of the Grand Rapids population was of Dutch descent.


Also:
Some conservative business principles embraced in West Michigan, however, have expanded across the state in ways that haven't pleased everyone.
The region has one of the lowest rates of participation in organized labor in Michigan. About 5 percent of private industry workers in the Grand Rapids region are union members, compared with 11 percent in Metro Detroit and statewide.
Owens said that lower labor costs are one of the reasons that outside companies are attracted to West Michigan.
What has irritated many backers of the labor movement, however, was the strong push by one West Michigan family in an ultimately successful 2012 campaign to enact right-to-work laws – making union membership voluntary – in a state was the was the birthplace of the United Auto Workers.
Many see the support by the DeVos familyfor right-to-work as part of a conservative business agenda that has outsized power that doesn't work everywhere in Michigan.
The DeVos family is among the top political donors in the state. They support conservative candidates and causes nationally as well.
"They're sort of the 800 pound gorilla in the state," said Zack Pohl, spokesman for the Michigan AFL-CIO, which has railed against the influence the DeVos family wields in Lansing.
West Michigan residents may think of the DeVos family differently. They are a visible part of the fabric of the community; the family name is on the medical, educational and civic buildings whose organizations have shared in their philanthropy. And it has backed a $15 million venture capital fund in 2012, giving entrepreneurs five minutes to make a pitch that could get them $5,000 in support.

Last edited by ckhthankgod; 10-10-2016 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
8,072 posts, read 9,514,136 times
Reputation: 7986
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketSci View Post
City of Buffalo Adopted Budget 2016-2017
Total Fire: $59,200,708.27
https://www.ci.buffalo.ny.us/files/1...mmary_Dept.pdf
Thank you i'll stand corrected.
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
8,072 posts, read 9,514,136 times
Reputation: 7986
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, I responded in kind, as the state was mentioned versus being Buffalo/Grand Rapids specific.
******************
.[/b]
Whatever post what you want i'm out of here...
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:58 PM
 
3,937 posts, read 3,462,716 times
Reputation: 6287
There seems to be a misconception about Grand Rapids having a similar history with a union based industrial work force. Grand Rapids has historically had an anemic union presence, especially in comparison to other "Rust Belt" cities. I'm not sure it's a fair comparison for either city, Buffalo was a major city when Grand Rapids was barely on anyones radar (and for the most part still isn't).

Last edited by mjlo; 10-10-2016 at 07:23 PM..
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Old 10-10-2016, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,830 posts, read 17,297,486 times
Reputation: 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Just to add to what I mentioned earlier, culture and having wealthy people rooted and grounded in that area like those 2 families make a difference. Both are some of the wealthiest families in the country and I mean in the 1% wealthy. Given their cultural(inc. religious) background and the culture of the area, they are likely willing to invest and grow their companies in the Grand Rapids area. Meijier is based in Walker and Amway is based in Ada(Forest Hills area) in suburban GR.

I know that Grand Rapids is/was a furniture manufacturing center and Bissell is based in the area as well. Bissell is another family owned company that is also HQed in Walker and is the #1 manufacturer of home care products in North America in terms of sales.
You keep repeating Meijer, but Meijer is not at all affiliated with Amway or the Devos and Van Andel families.

Even Amway only accounts for about 4000 jobs in the GR area and their interests downtown (mostly hotels) only employ a couple thousand. Their names are on buildings like the Arena and the convention center and Children's Hospital, but technically the workers there do not work for the "Big Dutch Families." It's not like downtown Salt Lake City that is literally majority controlled by the LDS. So Amway and the Dutch families account for 5000 or 6000 workers out of 550,000 in the metro area. They certainly have done a lot to revitalize downtown but that doesn't account for the massive growth in the entire metro area's GMP (per the Buffalo Business Journal article).

Bissell has a relatively small presence in Grand Rapids now. Most of its manufacturing was moved to Mexico, but it still retains its HQ and R&D facility here. They maybe have 500 employees here now, tops.

Here are the top employers in the GR MSA (or West Michigan as it's called frequently):

Advancing The West Michigan Economy | The Right Place
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Old 10-10-2016, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,830 posts, read 17,297,486 times
Reputation: 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
Again, I responded in kind, as the state was mentioned versus being Buffalo/Grand Rapids specific.

MS may get a car plant here or there, it still isn't a state that people generally think about in terms of economic growth in spite of lower costs.

I say that culture is being underestimated given the background of those with wealth in the area and the major companies in the area. It has one of the biggest Christian companies in terms of sales. It is has Gerber Company(baby products) based nearby and is a family company. It is also home to the Zondervan family of companies, which are Christian based and of a Dutch background, which isn't surprising given the strong Dutch Reformed culture in the area. This is why culture may be a factor in terms of the difference. Here is an article that touches on this point: Booming again: West Michigan's economy is on a roll | MLive.com


The results have been impressive: The Grand Rapids region is one of fastest growing economies in the country.
But replicating West Michigan's success elsewhere in Michigan may be difficult.
"I think there is a shared culture on the west side of the state that's as strong or stronger than other parts of the state," Ballard said.
A number of the region's leaders come from the same background, rooted in the waves of Dutch immigrants who began settling in the area in the 19th century. By 1900, 40 percent of the Grand Rapids population was of Dutch descent.


Also:
Some conservative business principles embraced in West Michigan, however, have expanded across the state in ways that haven't pleased everyone.
The region has one of the lowest rates of participation in organized labor in Michigan. About 5 percent of private industry workers in the Grand Rapids region are union members, compared with 11 percent in Metro Detroit and statewide.
Owens said that lower labor costs are one of the reasons that outside companies are attracted to West Michigan.
What has irritated many backers of the labor movement, however, was the strong push by one West Michigan family in an ultimately successful 2012 campaign to enact right-to-work laws – making union membership voluntary – in a state was the was the birthplace of the United Auto Workers.
Many see the support by the DeVos familyfor right-to-work as part of a conservative business agenda that has outsized power that doesn't work everywhere in Michigan.
The DeVos family is among the top political donors in the state. They support conservative candidates and causes nationally as well.
"They're sort of the 800 pound gorilla in the state," said Zack Pohl, spokesman for the Michigan AFL-CIO, which has railed against the influence the DeVos family wields in Lansing.
West Michigan residents may think of the DeVos family differently. They are a visible part of the fabric of the community; the family name is on the medical, educational and civic buildings whose organizations have shared in their philanthropy. And it has backed a $15 million venture capital fund in 2012, giving entrepreneurs five minutes to make a pitch that could get them $5,000 in support.
That Mlive article, which was picked up from Bridge Magazine, is pretty ridiculous. They didn't bother to interview hardly anyone from Grand Rapids (they talked to Lakeshore Advantage, which is a rinkydink economic development office in Holland of all places), same with the Freep article that is mentioned in the Buffalo Business Journal article. Maybe reporters should actually ask Grand Rapidian economic and community leaders what's going on.

If you were to ask my opinion, one only needs to dig into the 50 Million+ square feet of industrial/commercial space out in Cascade Township by the airport that sits at a very low 6% vacancy rate right now, which is almost unheard of in commercial real estate circles. Find out what all of those 100's of companies are doing and you might find something..

Last edited by magellan; 10-10-2016 at 08:42 PM..
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Old 10-10-2016, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,830 posts, read 17,297,486 times
Reputation: 3714
Quote:
Originally Posted by TanLegs View Post
Last Night on the Presidents debate, You notice how many times Donald Trump kept
mentioning how deplorable Upstate New York is and Upstate New York's economy is a disaster
It's pretty bad when Upstate New York is the epicenter for having it the worst in the entire country
Trump made a visit here about a week ago and was supposed to tour one of the many advanced manufacturing plants here. He canceled (rumor has it) because his campaign team found out the plant looks pretty sweet and that's not the picture he wanted the press corps to pick up. They were expecting dirty down and out coal miners apparently? Instead he visited the Gerald R Ford Museum downtown.
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:00 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,879 posts, read 22,011,227 times
Reputation: 10643
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
It's not like downtown Salt Lake City that is literally majority controlled by the LDS.
Utah in general may be strongly influenced by the LDS Church. This is not the case with Salt Lake City, however. Salt Lake City currently has an openly lesbian mayor. I can assure you that would not be the case if the city were "literally majority controlled by the LDS."
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:51 PM
 
255 posts, read 160,842 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Utah in general may be strongly influenced by the LDS Church. This is not the case with Salt Lake City, however. Salt Lake City currently has an openly lesbian mayor. I can assure you that would not be the case if the city were "literally majority controlled by the LDS."
SLC & Utah most be doing something right. Salt Lake City & Utah's economy is booming, lot's of tech company's are opening there and SLC/Utah are having the largest population gains right after Houston, Phoenix, & Austin, Also SLC/Utah's Front Runner High Speed Trains & the TRAX Light rail system are among the best in the country.
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Old 10-10-2016, 11:42 PM
 
1,206 posts, read 905,974 times
Reputation: 2041
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjoseph View Post
Yikes I didn't realize how anemic rochester's growth was
well, let's put it this way. Rochester over the last 10 years just had it's historically 3 big employers either go bankrupt (Kodak), get bought out and downsize (Bausch and Lomb), and sell of divisions (Xerox), yet somehow the economy still did grow here. Tell me any metro that could possibly have positive growth under those circumstances, yet Rochester managed to somehow do it. With the Photonics institute, RIT's major investments in Magic Studios and renewable energy, UofR's major investments in laser research and big data research, along with Eastman Business Park's focus, I think you'll see that downward trend reversed here. The bottom is in.
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