Tell Me about Buffalo, New York (Rochester, Amherst: apartment, crime rates, houses)

[bakuman]

Hi,

I've been reading as many postings as I can find in relevent forums about the Buffalo-Niagara area. My family of 4 are thinking of relocating to the area and I have done a lot of research. I guess what I really need is for people to fill in the blanks or offer any info that I have missed or they think is important. An invaluable thank you to those who respond ahead of time.

I have some really blunt, tough questions to ask so please don't take offence.

I am a pharmacist and my wife an optometrist. Any problems with getting jobs? Does anyone have any contacts that they could email me? I've already checked the regular web sites etc. I'm looking to talk to other colleagues that work and live in the area.

My main priorities
- good schools -- for these property tax rates, it should be mandatory
- a good central location since so I can cover a lot of the area in say 30 minutes or so mainly for employment purposes
- diversity

I've narrowed down the areas to live in as either Wheatfield, Amherst, Williamsville or Lancaster. I have kids so for my family the suburbs or even right outside suit us the best. I don't want to live in the snowbelt. Any places or gems I'm missing?

Things that really concern me
- The economy of the region in general -- is it really as horrible as I've researched? I've been told that since both my wife and I are in healthcare, we shouldn't have to worry. I don't buy that. If the area in general suffers, everyone suffers.

Since so much manufacturing has already left the area or is leaving, is there really any other industry coming in to replace this sector? I couldn't find any.

What is the status of the Ford plant in Cheektowaga and the 2 GM/Delphi plants in the area regarding if they are scheduled to close or downsize?

Property taxes are suffocating. I don't know how the average person can afford to live there. Is there something I'm missing here? Are they the most expensive in the country as I've been led to believe?

Does anyone know how much of Niagara county's revenue is based on tourism? I've been trying to find this out by contacting the county but I have not gotten any responses. Is it 20%...50%...does anyone know?

Another disturbing thing i was informed about. Just recently, the budgets for some districts allocate over 50% of their revenue just to pay for salaries, benefits and pensions for their municipal workers? That sounds unreal to me. Anyone know of anything like this?

Thank you for any help anyone can pass on to me. I greatly appreciate it.

[homeward bound]

I can answer/address some of your questions. Doubtless others will chime in here too....

The places you list have excellent schools. The Williamsville schools I attended, for example, were top-notch. Unless you didn't want to go to college or had messed up your grades while in highschool, you had a lot of doors open to you just by coming from these districts. Friends of mine went to Yale, Columbia, Cornell, the Univ. of Michigan, MIT, etc., and the wide range of the State Univeristy of New York universities and colleges. All of us felt very well prepared by our public education there.

Willamsville would indeed be a good central location. The commutes into the city, and also the areas north, south, and east are relatively easy. and the area does a remarkable job clearing the snow.

While the suburbs do tend to be white, they also have a good bit of diversity since Buffalo has long been an immigrant magnet/melting pot. Even in 1970, when we moved to Williamsville, we had neighbors from Pakistan and the Middle East, Korea, China, etc. We had only one black family in the neighborhood, but several times their son, my friend, told me they hadn't experienced any racism. These areas are, in general, well-educated and high civilized. I doubt you'd run into much bigotry at all. Plus, there's a big base of Italian, Polish, German, and Greek second- and third-generation Americans there, so exotic food, for example, is something NOT "ethnic"! Just about everybody there knows that their own family came there from somewhere else and thus tends to be pretty welcoming. Buffalo is famous for its Greek & Italian festivals.

You've identified fine places. Others I'd suggest--Springville, Orchard Park, Hamburg, East Aurora--are in or near the snow belt. To me, they're actually more desirable places than Williamsville, etc., but I like small towns and more-snow more than suburbs and less-snow. But all of these are all fine places to raise a family.

The economy is struggling, BUT it remains stable enough that professionals, esp. in medical fields, should be okay. Do note that the state has begun a major overhaul of the hospital system, which will entail some closings & consolidations. But a friend of mine, a ENT plastic surgeon in private practice, is doing fine, and I've heard that professionals generally, esp. in the suburbs, are okay.

I think there have been some high-tech/IT job replacements, but nothing really to replace the wide loss of those precious manufacturing jobs.

I don't know about the Cheektowaga Ford plant and the 2 GM plants, but the Ford Tonawanda plant just got chosen for a big infusion of investment--something like 800 million--so that's a good shot in the economic arm. Also, apparently GM has finally turned its fiscal corner, so it may be getting done with plant closings.

Yes, property taxes are high--but not as bad as Long Island and much of New Jersey and parts of Mass., etc. And my dad pays what comes out to be more than Buffalo-area prop. taxes in his Houston suburb. So this can be deceiving. Many suburbs have so many fees added onto the basic prop. tax that you end up actually paying more there than in upstate/western NY. Plus, Buffalo-area housing costs tend to be pretty moderate to begin with. You can afford a much nicer home there than you could many other places. And remember, you can deduct your prop. taxes from your taxable income, so that helps somewhat.

I don't know about Niagara County's revenue base, nor about what % of localties' payouts go to employee salary & benefits. But the latter # you cite wouldn't surprise me; the government is still a great gravy train to be on, though a mighty burdensome one to have to fund.

Still, keep in mind that the area affords a very good quality of life: Three great seasons (four if, like me, you actually like snow!), tons of recreational opportunities (skiing, swimming, fishing, boating, hiking, biking, antiqueing, professional sports teams, tons of athletic leagues for adults and kids, etc.), very good government services, great food, low crime (in the places you've noted--Buffalo, though, has a real crime problem), excellent schools (again in the areas you've mentioned, not the city itself), the state's terrific and very affordable state university & college system for in-state high school grads, history, variety, Canada and the world-class city of Toronto close by, the cleaned-up Great Lakes, and a general attitude of down-to-earth decency and friendliness.

Best of luck in whatever you decide!

[Dee62]

Originally Posted by zenguy21

Hi everyone

I'm looking at the University of Buffalo Law School and interested in possibly practicing or working upstate. I go to school in the Chicago area and am used to cold temperatures and bitterness.

What is Buffalo like? Is it an up and coming area? Pretty houses and neighborhoods? Good restaurants? Bars and sports teams? How are opportunities for skiing/outdoors and how far are you from a big city?

Also I'm a bit of a closet Brit so you better have good Indian restaurants and if not a professional soccer team: Good band scene

Thanks

Hey buddy Buffalo is considered the biggist city in the western New York region.
When you graduate do not expect to find a job in Buffalo. The only people who find work have got to have connections with organized crime (politics).
The city is very unsafe (crime). College students have been physically attacked and killed by Blacks and Hispanics. And the Mayor is now black and he is not addressing the problem. He is the only one who could. All the sports teams suck footbal etc. The only one that is good is the hockey sabres. And their players live in all the downtown bars taking drugs. The city and region is not as multi-cultural as other metro-areas. But you have alot of black racist throw-backs running around. Them together with the white liberal bohemian crowd still examine situation in terms of Black (Negro) and White. They need to get real lives.

[aka_mouse]

Originally Posted by Dee62

Hey buddy Buffalo is considered the biggist city in the western New York region.

TRUE.
Both in opinion, and coincidentally - fact.

Originally Posted by Dee62

When you graduate do not expect to find a job in Buffalo.

FALSE.
Correct Answer: Do not expect to find a job in your field in Buffalo.

Originally Posted by Dee62

The only people who find work have got to have connections with organized crime (politics).

MAYBE

Originally Posted by Dee62

The city is very unsafe (crime).

P U S S Y.

Originally Posted by Dee62

College students have been physically attacked and killed by Blacks and Hispanics.

MY KUNG FU IS WAY STRONG. ILL PROTECT YOU FROM THE NEGRO.


IM A CRIME FIGHTER!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Dee62

And the Mayor is now black and he is not addressing the problem.

BOTH TRUE.

The mayor is, indeed, 'now black'. (Kinda like Michael Jackson, but in reverse. They dyed him that color. Byron Brown was an Irish dude from South B.)

Originally Posted by Dee62

He is the only one who could.

FALSE

Originally Posted by Dee62

All the sports teams suck footbal etc.

TRUE

Originally Posted by Dee62

The only one that is good is the hockey sabres.

TRUE

Originally Posted by Dee62

And their players live in all the downtown bars taking drugs.

ALL THE PLAYERS ARE IN AMHERST.
FAIL.

Originally Posted by Dee62

The city and region is not as multi-cultural as other metro-areas.

INDETERMINATE


*********************


CONCLUSION:

DEE62 IS A Moderator cut: inappropriate

[Wisteria]

Aka_mouse -- funny post (this is how stereotypes start -- partly truth and partly fiction).

I was born and raised in Buffalo, but came back and forth a number of times after finally leaving again in 1996. I did receive my undergraduate and graduate degrees from SUNY/Buffalo.

My main priorities
- good schools -- for these property tax rates, it should be mandatory
- a good central location since so I can cover a lot of the area in say 30 minutes or so mainly for employment purposes
- diversity

I've narrowed down the areas to live in as either Wheatfield, Amherst, Williamsville or Lancaster. I have kids so for my family the suburbs or even right outside suit us the best. I don't want to live in the snowbelt. Any places or gems I'm missing?

I'm looking at the University of Buffalo Law School and interested in possibly practicing or working upstate. I have been to Ithaca and Binghamton and thought it was a pretty area and lot of stuff to do. I went in the summer and am not quite used to your winter. However I go to school in the Chicago area and am used to cold temperatures and bitterness.

What is Buffalo like? Is it an up and coming area? Pretty houses and neighborhoods? Good restaurants?

Unfortunately, the city of Buffalo is changing, although I still like the Westside (the Elmwood Area and Allentown, as has been mentioned already). Beautiful Victorians and mansions around the city. Quite a few Frank Lloyd Wright houses....basically, Buffalo seems to be a sister city to Chicago -- often when I'm in Chicago, on many streets I feel like I could be right in Buffalo -- similar architecture, tree-lined streets, beautiful old homes, lovely areas to walk.

I don't think the music scene is as big as it was when I lived there, but it used to be known as one of "the" primer live music venues in the country! Ever hear of the band Spiro Gyra -- I used to walk by the clubs they played in and when I moved to Colorado, someone I knew had an album of theirs and were raving about them. I asked when this person had been in Buffalo -- and since it had been a couple of years since I had been there and was living in Arizona and wasn't in the music loop then -- they exclaimed, "They're FAMOUS, they're playing at Red Rocks!" I couldn't believe it.

Buffalo is a pretty laid-back town for a city. Not rushed like NYC, but not the farms, either.

I have one sister who lives in Lancaster and loves it. Her kids went to Alden High School. I have another sister who lives in Williamsville, and her kids go to Amherst High School (one of the best high schools in the country). The only problem (I think) with Amherst, Lancaster, Wheatfield, Williamsville, Kenmore and other suburbs is that .. they are suburbs! I, personally, don't like suburbs, although I know many people do. I lived in the city (mostly the West Side -- Delaware Avenue/Albright Knox Art Gallery areas) and loved it.

There is lots of multi-cultural diversity, but there's a huge underclass. If you're in health care, you may get paid well, otherwise, salaries tend to be pretty low. The other drawback is that for law school, there are tons of law school graduates out there, and they either move or become paralegals.

Snow....well, there's the "snowbelt" and then there's the "snowbelt," I mean it SNOWS there! Some years are worse than others, but the city is very, very prepared -- I used to love to go to sleep to the lull of snowplows all night long. But the streets are salted, and plowed all the time, and pavement is often showing, although you may be flanked by 10-20 foot high drifts!! (I, personally, think snow is beautiful.)

There's lots of cultural activities, and Toronto, which, ironically, people from there would often come to Buffalo for culture, but now it's in the reverse. Toronto is one of the world's greatest cities. And, you can easily hop a plane to NYC in an hour, and you can drive out to the country and skiiing very quickly. Many people rent cabins or camp at Alleghany State Park. And for the summer, a nice weekend in the Finger Lakes would be great.

The University is rated one of the best. Personally, though, I liked the Main Street campus much, much better than Amherst. Amherst IS a suburb and there is no real downtown, except for the campus. The Main Street campus used to be really cool, but now, unfortunately, crime has risen dramatically, and I understand that students who attend the med school and dental schools and other schools there are advised to wear beepers or carry cell phones to call 911 (awful, I know).

The food is terrific! Great pizza, and of course, the famous chicken wings!! Oh, and don't forget beef on weck sandwiches (if you haven't had one, do!).

And Niagara Falls (Canadian side is much prettier and cleaner), is only 22 miles away. If you're into bike riding, you can actually ride clear from the Buffalo Peace Bridge up the scenic road next to the Niagara River right into Niagara Falls, Canada.

The downside for many of us is the bottoming of the economy. Many of my friends (most of them) moved from there for jobs. The wages tend to be low, property taxes are extremely high (although they do fund those good schools), and amazingly they never pulled in the high-tech sector. I always thought with those gorgeous old Victorians with their hardwood floors, winding staircases, and stained glass windows along the tree-lined streets would be something a techy would love to have. But no, Buffalo seems to have not lost the factory mentality.

It's a toss-up. I love much of my hometown, but I know making it there financially is tough. And I've gotten used to nice weather. But I do miss being near Toronto, and NYC. And I miss those beautiful old homes.

The politics there do seem to be messed up, but that's a whole other story. I guess if one is coming to Buffalo for school, then either the city or suburbs are good; if one is coming to raise a family, then you'd best choose Amherst or Williamsville.

Yeah, and you might want to invest in a good snow blower!!

[Dee62]

Quote by AKA Mouse
The mayor is, indeed, 'now black'. (Kinda like Michael Jackson, but in reverse. Byron Brown was an Irish dude from South B.)



Aka Mouse (Bradly) nice to hear from Ya.

Most people I know, who graduated from a university in Buffalo, had to relocate for employment. Or they were transfered to another region after being hired by a company. I like so many others are still very bitter after being separated from our families and friends. So sorry you were unable to graduate a university. I see your still living there.Those multiple guess tests make people drop out. Good for people with poor reading skills and concentration. Hope to see on the mat when I'm in town for old times sake

[mousehair]

If you are going to move to Buffalo, remember you may graduate from the college, however, good luck finding a job nearby. I lived in Buffalo since I was little, went to SUNY Buffalo and I had to leave becasue there were no education jobs around. I had to move out of state to get a steady job. The only place that is decent is the Elmwood area because it is close to everything. Amherst etc is nice but too suburban and a drive to the campus. UB city is a good school but DONT live in that area. I lived in that area and it is very high crime. Many students are getting raped and mugged. It is a shame how Buffalo is. High crime, ignorant attitudes and horrible neighborhoods. It seems every area is turning into a ghetto.

[homeward bound]

Hi, Mousehair. (Another greeting I never thought I'd read myself making...!)

I lived around the UB Main St. campus for quite a few of my years in Buffalo, both while attending UB and after I graduated. It was a pretty safe area then (1979-1984).

What happened??

Did a lot of the student rentals get sold or rented to non-students once most of the Main St. campus activity shifted to the Amherst campus?

This is really sad news. The student area had a lot of modest but very nice houses and neighborhoods. Tree lined streets and medians, little shops and taverns on Main St. and Bailey Ave., etc. We students lived among quite a few families that owned their own homes there and kept them in good shape and took pride in their neighborhood. It felt good to be in the city and right around Main St. and right next to the nicer of the two campuses. You could walk to whatever you needed or wanted. And it was a good experience for a lot of the students from the NYC/LI area to live in a real city with a real sense of identity and pride like that. As a local, I was glad to see most of them develop an appreciation for Buffalo by living within it and lose some of their bias against anything not NYC/LI.

I think it's a real sign of a city in deep trouble when even the college student areas become target zones like this.

WHAT HAPPENED???

[NDL]

Yes, I wonder what happened too...

Is the area around Delaware Park still safe? Are there no safe areas left in Buffalo?

Also, is there still an Italian population in Buffalo?

Finally, what types of temperatures do Buffalonians endure in the winter? What about the summer? How hot does it usually get?

Has anyone taken a drive from Buffalo to NYC, and how long should it realistically take?

[homeward bound]

NDL, I can answer a few of your questions.

Though it's had a lot of population loss, flight to the suburbs, etc., Buffalo still has a very large Italian-American population.

It gets cold, of course, but generally not as cold as the cities (Detroit, etc.) on the other side of the lake. The cloudiness that the lake creates actually acts like an insulator, moderating the temps., esp. at night. You can get lows as low as below-zero, but highs in the 40s, too. The city-data site will show you the range and average temp. It's rarely that bitter, biting, dry cold of sunnier places, though it sure can get windy, esp. during a blizzard or series of "snow squalls." You're rarely locked in the worst of the cold for long--the weather tends to be very changeable.

Summers are generally great--some of the best summer weather anywhere I've been, anyway. Lots of days in the mid- to high-70s with a beautiful breeze off the lake. Lots of days with rolling puffy clouds in a blue sky. Plenty warm enough for swimming, etc. Nights that are soft but cool enough for a warmer shirt or even a light jacket. VERY pleasant. Sometimes you'll get long rainy or gray stretches, but that's offset by the fact that you rarely get stifling heat and humidity. Droughts are rare too. The towns and farmland around Buffalo tend to be very verdant.

It's been a while, but I think it would take me eight hours to drive from Buffalo to NYC. The southern route, along what used to be Rt. 17/The Southern Tier Expressway--what's its Interstate # now?--is generally very pretty.

Hope this helps.

And I still hope to hear from someone who can explain why the old student area around the old Main St. UB campus has gotten so dangerous.