Downtown Construction Update (Buffalo, Rome, Lloyd: landscaping, living, budget)

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I wish that the Statler Towers looked like it does in that mockup. It's a shame about that building, it should be well maintained and fully occupied. By far one of the nicest in Buffalo.

It will be soon! The Statler has just switched hands into local developers. The plans are very promising, as work is already underway for asbestos removal within the towers.
Here's an article: Statler Sells for $1.3M to Local Group | City | Buffalo Rising

Statler sold for $1.3 million; complete overhaul planned : Home: The Buffalo News

"The group plans to remodel the building with 235 hotel rooms, 111 apartments, two restaurants, a coffee shop, a jazz club and retail space. Sam Savarino of Savarino Construction will be the general contractor.

Plans call for asbestos removal to begin as early as September."

With the courthouse rising, Avant opening, along with a plethora of other new developments on the same street such as the recent 285 Delaware Building, Niagara Center, New Era Headquarters, National Federal Building, along with many others throughout downtown "booming Delaware" that have opened up within the past 5 years, it is critical that the nearly abandoned Statler Towers are restored. Thankfully, they are. Another sign that Buffalo is starting to get it right. Growth is closer to reality than ever before- since the 50's. Yesss...

[donbuy]

Yesssss indeed!

[Canerican]

I don't really believe that, because 90% of growth is either government project or people flipping buildings (usually try and do something with it and sell it when it fails). But if they want to make Buffalo look less ugly and run down I'm all for it. (as long as it's not my tax dollars)

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I don't really believe that, because 90% of growth is either government project or people flipping buildings (usually try and do something with it and sell it when it fails). But if they want to make Buffalo look less ugly and run down I'm all for it. (as long as it's not my tax dollars)

Well, CanalSide certainly isn't a government project, as well as dozens of other projects going on like Genesee Gateway, or the Avant, Waterfront place Tower, along with many, many other developments. Yes there are a ton of people flipping buildings, but very few government projects. 1 or maybe 2 government projects I could list. What ones are you thinking of!?

Buffalo is showing signs of improvement not just in new buildings or renovations, but we have seen over a few thousand people move downtown within the past decade or so. Something that hasn't happened since shortly after the 2000 Census. Along with that, jobs are moving downtown. See the Blue Cross Blue Shield building that went up a few years back. That's a couple thousand more jobs in the heart of downtown. Sure we aren't thriving and growing, but we are sure on our way to be. Even in politics. People are showing more and more pride for their city than ever before. Things are finally shaping up!

[Canerican]

That's just not true, over 2000 people moved away from Buffalo between 2008-2009 according to the census estimate, and since 2000 about 22,000 have moved away from Buffalo proper, 50,000 have moved away from the county. from 1990-2000 Buffalo's population during the day (i.e. people commuting in to work) was increasing by about 12,000 more than today, in other words we lost about 12,000 jobs in Buffalo proper. I would bet the suburbs are suffering more on that front though.

By government projects I mean heavily subsidized, pretty much ever demolition is done by the government, the water front restoration etc.

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by Canerican

That's just not true, over 2000 people moved away from Buffalo between 2008-2009 according to the census estimate, and since 2000 about 22,000 have moved away from Buffalo proper, 50,000 have moved away from the county. from 1990-2000 Buffalo's population during the day (i.e. people commuting in to work) was increasing by about 12,000 more than today, in other words we lost about 12,000 jobs in Buffalo proper. I would bet the suburbs are suffering more on that front though.

By government projects I mean heavily subsidized, pretty much ever demolition is done by the government, the water front restoration etc.

I understand your points you are making, but there is still progress to be seen. Sure it can be difficult, but that are true signs of a comeback when you start looking into it. Check it out: Is Buffalo Making a Comeback? | City | Buffalo Rising

BTW- when I said thousands were moving downtown, that doesn't mean the city as a whole is growing, I meant that downtown is stabilizing and is enjoying a slow rebirth.

[Canerican]

I understand, I read Buffalo rising, Artvoice, they are Buffalo-centric, they have been saying good things are coming for a long time (since their founding) but they haven't.

You can polish a turd and it's still gonna be a turd. These things are all superficial and don't do a thing to cure Buffalo. Yes, fixing up the courthouse looks nice, but that's not bringing jobs, it's basically Keynesism, it's essentially useless waste. We keep falling further behind, and all I hear is, "it's bad, but look what we have planned..." Cities our size are talking about new highrises, we are talking about how to convince people not to move away because of the lack of jobs, or tangible improvement. The truth is that there are few reasons to stay in Buffalo over 90% of other cities.

We will see declines for sometime still, I would say that once Buffalo hits 175,000 it will be enough of a shock to cause big changes -- I hope. The alternative is that Buffalo will end up being as depressed as Elmira, and the decline will just keep on going till half the town is decaying, and there isn't jobs, and there isn't enough tax revenue to even clean up the city. We are close to that place, and I fear that the residents of Buffalo face a huge tax hike or else they face seeing Buffalo look like Detroit, with about 1/2 the city abandoned, and no way to either tear down the old buildings or convince someone to fix them up.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but it is happening at an accelerating pace every day. You can say that good things are coming, but we haven't seen them for 50 years. And we likely won't for 25 more years, not until people stop leaving. Wait for the population to stabilize and I'll reevaluate my position.

[donbuy]

Originally Posted by Canerican

That's just not true, over 2000 people moved away from Buffalo between 2008-2009 according to the census estimate, and since 2000 about 22,000 have moved away from Buffalo proper, 50,000 have moved away from the county.

The census numbers are nortorious for their inaccuracies. For example the Erie County Estimate for 2000 from the Census Bureau was 908,000, the actual count turned out to be 950,000. The estimates simply do not count people that no longer file tax returns such as retirees which causes a severe underestimate in aging counties such as Erie as well as Allegheny in Pennsylvani

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by donbuy

The census numbers are nortorious for their inaccuracies. For example the Erie County Estimate for 2000 from the Census Bureau was 908,000, the actual count turned out to be 950,000. The estimates simply do not count people that no longer file tax returns such as retirees which causes a severe underestimate in aging counties such as Erie as well as Allegheny in Pennsylvani

Yes, the estimates are sometimes wrong, the actually Census is filled out by every resident.

And I think you have your facts mixed up (or maybe it is a coincidence), the data I see is that the estimate was 946,000 in 2000, the actual 950,000. The estimate in 2008 is 909,000.

I'm sure that is accurate, I don't think it is a stretch to think that about 1 in 20 Erie County residents have left in the past 8 years. It is a staggering number, but if you talk to people about it, I would say that about 1/8 love WNY and love it, 3/8 like it, 1/4 doesn't like it, but they are happy, 1/4 are looking to leaving ASAP.

I would say that as soon as the job market softens, lots of people with jobs in WNY will quit to move elsewhere.

Look under my name, I am counting down the months. I cannot wait to leave, I am very blessed to have the resources and the ability to make it happen.

[Buffalonian4life]

You know- the courthouse may not bring many jobs, but the land value in and around the new build nationally recognized for its design, is going up every day. The Statler is now in high demand. This part of the city is well on its way and looking to the future. Not only that, businesses like newer downtowns, where they can potentially settle in Buffalo's Modern growing district around Delaware. Every step helps. I can assure you Buffalo will never drop below 250,000. We are bottoming out, and there is no room for more decline. After this recession is eventually over, watch Buffalo scream ahead of many of the other cities in the nation. We are a strong city with a strong past and a strong future. Just look at the BNMC!