Is there any hope for Buffalo? (Boston, Knox: 2010, condos, crime rate)

[Buffalonian4life]

Well, after posting a few threads on Downtown Construction Projects, and reading both positive and negative comments of Buffalo NY, I sat back in my chair and wondered if Buffalo could truly come back. As much as I would want Buffalo's population to start rising, unfortunately, it looks as if by the 2010 Census we could shrink even more considerably to not be counted in the 50 largest Metro's in the US. I would like to here your responses on where you think Buffalo will go in the coming years. What can we do? What is plausible and realistic for the city and region? Where is the HOPE for our once great city of Buffalo NY?

[UpstaterInBklyn]

As I said in the post that seemed to have inspired this thread.

Small does not mean bad. There are lots of successful small cities.

Smallness is a strength: good quality of life, and affordability are the strengths that come with being small. None of the above strengths exist in any top tier metro.

Thinking small means thinking differently, however.

The current development strategy of attracting "back office" operations like financial processing centers and call centers is actually on the right track. It creates jobs, but these facilities provide limited long-term benefits and are subject to the whims of their corporate headquarters.

I've often thought that Buffalonians own attitudes are one of the biggest roadblocks to prosperity. There is not much of an entrepreneurial, self-reliant, culture in Buffalo. Everyone seems to be waiting for somebody else to have the answer - or worse, waiting for politicians to "fix" things. I think this has to do with a strong blue-collar union tradition and an inherent mistrust of "business interests".

But the local business community shares in the blame because the local "gentry", the richest people in town, don't do enough to support the city. The Knoxes did their part, but they are all gone. Think about the Riches, the Jacobs etc. What have they done lately? The only one who seems interested in helping his community is Robert Wilmers and he's taken a beating for it. (think Phil Rumore).

Also, most of the home-grown successful businesses seem to sell out to out-of-town owners who then scale back operations. Two that immediately come to mind are Mark IV Industries, now owned by an Italian firm, and Upgrade Corp of America - which became UCA&L, then Softbank Services, then ClientLogic, then Sitel - and now headquartered in Nashville.

BTW - Nice post in the NYC forum - great pictures

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life

Well, after posting a few threads on Downtown Construction Projects, and reading both positive and negative comments of Buffalo NY, I sat back in my chair and wondered if Buffalo could truly come back. As much as I would want Buffalo's population to start rising, unfortunately, it looks as if by the 2010 Census we could shrink even more considerably to not be counted in the 50 largest Metro's in the US. I would like to here your responses on where you think Buffalo will go in the coming years. What can we do? What is plausible and realistic for the city and region? Where is the HOPE for our once great city of Buffalo NY?

What I think it is, all too many times I have conversations with people who talk about how Buffalo could be like another city. For example, such-such city has a Bass Pro shop, Buffalo should have one too. There are some great and unique points of the city, those are where the focus should be.... not what another port city is doing. While some trends are okay follow, downtown housing, condos, etc. Buffalo is rich in the ground and in life of the people, not much can be done with the limited resourses NYS can provide.

The politicians play a big part in the direction of Buffalo. Look at the Commercial Slip (we've got pictures ) it's nice, it brought beauty to a small area of downtown costing taxpayer a lot of money, I can't help but to think of the rest of the city though, and how poorly tended Buffalo's infrastructure really is.

The "hope" for Buffalo, I feel, is to not dream higher than the sky knowing we haven't the money to pay for it. Should we settle for a cardboard cut-out of another city as our "new Buffalo"? The best for this city is to build on what we already have.

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

As I said in the post that seemed to have inspired this thread.

Small does not mean bad. There are lots of successful small cities.

Smallness is a strength: good quality of life, and affordability are the strengths that come with being small. None of the above strengths exist in any top tier metro.

Thinking small means thinking differently, however.

The current development strategy of attracting "back office" operations like financial processing centers and call centers is actually on the right track. It creates jobs, but these facilities provide limited long-term benefits and are subject to the whims of their corporate headquarters.

I've often thought that Buffalonians own attitudes are one of the biggest roadblocks to prosperity. There is not much of an entrepreneurial, self-reliant, culture in Buffalo. Everyone seems to be waiting for somebody else to have the answer - or worse, waiting for politicians to "fix" things. I think this has to do with a strong blue-collar union tradition and an inherent mistrust of "business interests".

But the local business community shares in the blame because the local "gentry", the richest people in town, don't do enough to support the city. The Knoxes did their part, but they are all gone. Think about the Riches, the Jacobs etc. What have they done lately? The only one who seems interested in helping his community is Robert Wilmers and he's taken a beating for it. (think Phil Rumore).

Also, most of the home-grown successful businesses seem to sell out to out-of-town owners who then scale back operations. Two that immediately come to mind are Mark IV Industries, now owned by an Italian firm, and Upgrade Corp of America - which became UCA&L, then Softbank Services, then ClientLogic, then Sitel - and now headquartered in Nashville.

You bring up some very good points that I have failed to recognize. Thank you for the post - it enhanced my knowledge of the area and exactly what the Buffalonian's mindset is in. I suppose small isn't bad at all - and if we build on what we have we, we will grow, but how do we get to the point of growing? What do we build upon? Our waterfront location and the abundant source of freshwater we have? Too many questions and yet so few answers.

Originally Posted by UpstaterInBklyn

BTW - Nice post in the NYC forum - great pictures

Thank you - I took those pictures in July form the Marina Tower which is arguably the best place to take a skyline shot of Buffalo (Especially at night)! I love posting about Buffalo in the NYC forum - I get a lot of interesting replies!

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

The best for this city is to build on what we already have.

Precisely, but how do we do it? Build on our resource of fresh abundant Lake water? What do we do and how do we get there? What we have is location - we are directly in the path of NYC, Philly, DC, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Boston, Toronto, etc. What can we build on to be prominent in the center of the Northeast? I mean, there's no way we would ever come close to an NYC or Philly, etc (at least not in the near future), but even a Pittsburg here would be nice.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life

Precisely, but how do we do it? Build on our resource of fresh abundant Lake water? What do we do and how do we get there? What we have is location - we are directly in the path of NYC, Philly, DC, Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Boston, Toronto, etc. What can we build on to be prominent in the center of the Northeast? I mean, there's no way we would ever come close to an NYC or Philly, etc (at least not in the near future), but even a Pittsburg here would be nice.

Being in any direct path, I feel, doesn't mean our city has to be a carbon copy of another city, it's what makes going on holiday worth while. If we have the same look as Pittsburg, Pittsburg vacationers wouldn't pick Buffalo as a place to visit.

When you look down Main Street, you see the same as I, vacancies and lots of them. Building on what is already here is getting the stores/shops filled back up again with vendors, not the building new for attraction. It wouldn't take much in taxes to bring the interest back.

Imagine never being here before, and coming off the Commercial Slip, finding a street filled with little shops, outside coffee cafe's, a place for pizza & wings, book stores, novelty businesses selling Buffalo, NY "All-American City" t-shirts, picture post cards of the Marina, "City of Good Neighbors" bumperstickers. That's a full day tourism in itself for downtown Buffalo... plus add in tickets to a Bison's or Sabres game, or seeing a free concert at Thursday in the Square. It's not the same as any other port city. That to me is the "hope" for Buffalo, to be a place of its own.

I know I sound like I'm getting ahead of myself on dreaming, but it's all posible and with limited government funding, should our politicians put forth the incentive to interest Buffalonians.

edit.

While investing much interest into downtown & tourism, we still have to be reminded of the everyday living for the rest of the city.

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

Being in any direct path, I feel, doesn't mean our city has to be a carbon copy of another city, it's what makes going on holiday worth while. If we have the same look as Pittsburg, Pittsburg vacationers wouldn't pick Buffalo as a place to visit.

When you look down Main Street, you see the same as I, vacancies and lots of them. Building on what is already here is getting the stores/shops filled back up again with vendors, not the building new for attraction. It wouldn't take much in taxes to bring the interest back.

Imagine never being here before, and coming off the Commercial Slip, finding a street filled with little shops, outside coffee cafe's, a place for pizza & wings, book stores, novelty businesses selling Buffalo, NY "All-American City" t-shirts, picture post cards of the Marina, "City of Good Neighbors" bumperstickers. That's a full day tourism in itself for downtown Buffalo... plus add in tickets to a Bison's or Sabres game, or seeing a free concert at Thursday in the Square. It's not the same as any other port city. That to me is the "hope" for Buffalo, to be a place of its own.

I know I sound like I'm getting ahead of myself on dreaming, but it's all posible and with limited government funding, should our politicians put forth the incentive to interest Buffalonians.

edit.

While investing much interest into downtown & tourism, we still have to be reminded of the everyday living for the rest of the city.

Your post makes me smile because you truly understand what Buffalo needs - to be unique on it's own, not like another city. Do you think that Buffalo's population will start increasing in the coming years? Just a question

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life

Your post makes me smile because you truly understand what Buffalo needs - to be unique on it's own, not like another city. Do you think that Buffalo's population will start increasing in the coming years? Just a question

I think that Buffalo's population, like my previous post, can be built upon too. First and foremost though, retaining the current population is important. With that, friends, relatives may consider moving here or coming back. Though, population alone isn't hope for Buffalo, waterfront alone, revitalization alone, it has to be many elements joining together.

In thinking, the new harbor brings tourism, attractive commerce improves our economy, lower crime rate encourages people to stay, or the incentive to relocate here. Revitalizing our bad infrastructure leaves pride in community and people are more apt to look out for one another, shop in their neighborhood, more apt to being happy to be in Buffalo.

Turning the tables, when a community looks bad, the mood of the people is feeling bad, negative, uncaring.

Just a few thoughts.

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

I think that Buffalo's population, like my previous post, can be built upon too. First and foremost though, retaining the current population is important. With that, friends, relatives may consider moving here or coming back. Though, population alone isn't hope for Buffalo, waterfront alone, revitalization alone, it has to be many elements joining together.


In thinking, the new harbor brings tourism, attractive commerce improves our economy, lower crime rate encourages people to stay, or the incentive to relocate here. Revitalizing our bad infrastructure leaves pride in community and people are more apt to look out for one another, shop in their neighborhood, more apt to being happy to be in Buffalo.


Turning the tables, when a community looks bad, the mood of the people is feeling bad, negative, uncaring.

Just a few thoughts.

Very true, Thank you for sharing your view's and opinions

[coldwynn]

The Buffalo News (online) had a three part video series on abandoned houses and in one of them, they had interviews with mayors from cities in Ohio that had similar problems due to loss of Erie Canal related industries and how they decided that they were no longer going to be a "big city" and that they were going to plan for a city that was much smaller. From the brief video, they people seemed to be very happy with that decision and are now living a much better quality of life than if they had insisted on trying to recover their past glory.

(I've tried to find the video but I can't get into the online archives.)

But it does echo the points already made here that maybe Buffalo shouldn't try to remain a big city, that it should spend its money on improving only what is sustainable.