What other city/town is like Buffalo? (Potter, Accord: design, area)

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

No!

I live in the suburbs of Pittsburgh and trust me, Pittsburgh is NOTHING like Buffalo. The economy is better than Buffalo, but that is about it. The only suburbs Pittsburgh has are Bethal Park (like Cheektowaga) and Mt. Lebanon like (Amherst near Harlem and Main streets.)

Pittsburgh also has much, much less to do! The bar "strip" their version of Chippewa, or Elmwood is called Carson Street and is a DUMP! The bars are dirty and cheap. The people (unless they are students from elsewhere) are fat and dirty. I have never seen so many disgustingly fat, dirty and unkempt people in my life than here in Pitt! No beautiful people like Buffalo has.

No beaches! The rivers are brown and gross and no one swims in them! There are only one or two boats in the water at a time - the rivers are pretty polluted here.

The shopping is similar to Buffalo, but there is much less of it! Plus everything is so dirty and falling apart. Think Lackawana by the steel plants - or the fruit belt in Buffalo proper. Ross Park Mall is the only decent mall around, but that is way up north in the suburbs, but worth the drive.

Shadyside is like Allentown, but smaller and dirtier (I cannot stress that enough) Squirrel Hill is like a miniature Delaware park area without the park and museums! The downtown are is nice to work - not to live. There are a few new condos being built, but you'll need a car to get anywhere.

Can you tell I'm not impressed by Pittsburgh?

Pittsburgh has so many gorgeous views, and the housing actually has a lot of character. I visited Pittsburgh once a long time ago, and thought it was very unique and very under-rated. But I never lived there though.

[Canerican]

I've always thought that Buffalo can be better than Pittsburgh, Buffalo's waterfront has potential to be much nicer, as the view across the water is much nicer here than in Pittsburgh. If Buffalo gets rid of the skyway, and they build something that doesn't surround a big box store like they foolishly are going for, we can have a very nice downtown, and could potentially see gentrification, thus money flow back into Buffalo.

That being said, as of now, Pittsburgh is a model of a city turned around, and is a very fun city, with well diversified industries, and is attracting the right people. Basically, it's everything Buffalo isn't right now.

I would like to see that turn around, but I doubt we will for at least 15-20 years.

[donbuy]

Originally Posted by Canerican

That being said, as of now, Pittsburgh is a model of a city turned around, and is a very fun city, with well diversified industries, and is attracting the right people. Basically, it's everything Buffalo isn't right now.

I would like to see that turn around, but I doubt we will for at least 15-20 years.

As someone who went to CMU and lived in Pittsburgh for four years and still visits frequently, I can attest Pittsburgh is not a model city for anyone. They are currently operating under a State Control board. The public transit system is in chaos and has cut back on dozens of routes. Gone over the past 10 years are major HQ's and R&D facilities for Westinghouse, Gulf Oil and Mellon Bank among many others. Allegheny County has seen it's population drop since 2000 by far greater nubers in both actual and percentages than has Buffalo. The Pittsburgh Metro has lost such a large percentage of it's youth that it is now the only million plus metro in the nation that annually has more deaths than births. Only Detroit has lost a higher percentage of $50,000 +/year jobs over the past decade according to Business Week magazine.

Things have gotten so bad there that Greater Pittsburgh International Airport which handled 28 million passengers in 2000 is on track to handle fewer than 8 million this year. About half of it's gates now sit empty draining Allegheny County coffers which must dip into general revenues to pay for the bonds used to build it. The mass transit system is in such chos that they have laid off dozens of drivers and curtailed routes and hours of service.

The City of Pittsburgh is operating under the auspices of a Pa. State Control Board in an attempt to stave off bankruptcy.

Go to Pittsburgh and look at the recent construction - it is almost ALL government funded. Baseball Stadium, Football Stadium, Convention Center etc. - all footed by the taxpayors. The major privately funded destination hotel that was promised as part of the stadium project 10 years ago has yet to materialize.Even Bass Pro that was going to build a store in suburban Pittsburgh (Washington, PA) pulled the plug on that project about a year ago despite being offered millions in government subsidies.


When they had the economic summit in Pittsburgh last month the City actually spent $1.3 million dollars to make over 100 empty downtown storefronts look like they were occupied (sourcr: Pittsburgh Business Times)

Pittsburgh was a fun place to live in during my college years but a role model of urban success - sorry no.

[Canerican]

You are wrong about Pittsburgh losing less people than Buffalo, at least according to the Census Bureau (or is the Census Bureau yet another organization that's biased against Buffalo?)

According to the Census Buffalo cost 7.4% of its population, Pittsburgh 7.3%

Also note a couple other nearby cities on the Census' "worst of" list, Cleveland, Syracuse, and Rochester are all in the top 10 quickest dying cities. None of these horrible cities can find a better solution to it's massive population loss due to punitive taxes other than "hey, lets raise taxes more herr durr!"

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

You are wrong about Pittsburgh losing less people than Buffalo, at least according to the Census Bureau (or is the Census Bureau yet another organization that's biased against Buffalo?)

According to the Census Buffalo cost 7.4% of its population, Pittsburgh 7.3%

Also note a couple other nearby cities on the Census' "worst of" list, Cleveland, Syracuse, and Rochester are all in the top 10 quickest dying cities. None of these horrible cities can find a better solution to it's massive population loss due to punitive taxes other than "hey, lets raise taxes more herr durr!"

I wouldn't say that any of those cities are "horrible", but things cyclical and I wouldn't be surprised if things start looking up for some of those cites. I already see some positive changes here in Syracuse with a new biotech center being built, a couple of manufacturing companies expanding here and quite a bit of construction going on.

[Canerican]

I agree about some being cyclical, but those cities have been going down since the 50s for the most part. When do we change this from being a cycle to a trend? After 60 years? 70 years? A century?

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by Canerican

I agree about some being cyclical, but those cities have been going down since the 50s for the most part. When do we change this from being a cycle to a trend? After 60 years? 70 years? A century?

If you just look at cities, you have to remember that suburbs were just starting to pick up steam in the early 50's. So, many of those people just moved to the suburbs and didn't leave the area. Many of those metros have actually been pretty steady for the most part. So, once the center city gets revitalized, you will see the metro as a whole pick up steam again. I would say that technically the problems started in the 1970's as industries like steel, auto production and other manufacturing jobs started to leave the region or even country. Now, it's about recreating one's self and use the resources available like the higher institutions in terms of research and ideas, proximity to natural resources, embrace technology, innovative and new forms of public education, public/private investments in neighborhoods and economic projects and community policing.

[donbuy]

Originally Posted by Canerican

You are wrong about Pittsburgh losing less people than Buffalo, at least according to the Census Bureau (or is the Census Bureau yet another organization that's biased against Buffalo?)

According to the Census Buffalo cost 7.4% of its population, Pittsburgh 7.3%

Also note a couple other nearby cities on the Census' "worst of" list, Cleveland, Syracuse, and Rochester are all in the top 10 quickest dying cities. None of these horrible cities can find a better solution to it's massive population loss due to punitive taxes other than "hey, lets raise taxes more herr durr!"

Once more you are stuck in the City Limits, I clearly cited a comparison between Erie County, NY and Allegheny County Pa.

[Canerican]

Oh, so now it's counties, not MSAs. I have to admit this is getting very confusing.

Again, you don't set the terms of statistics, since you, time and time again, use whichever data makes Buffalo appear better. If city wide data is better for your case, you use it. If it's county wide data that makes Buffalo not seem like slum it is, you use that. If it's MSA, or even state-wide, well, then you use that.

It's annoying and intellectually dubious to say the least.

[donbuy]

Originally Posted by Canerican

Oh, so now it's counties, not MSAs. I have to admit this is getting very confusing.

Again, you don't set the terms of statistics, since you, time and time again, use whichever data makes Buffalo appear better. If city wide data is better for your case, you use it. If it's county wide data that makes Buffalo not seem like slum it is, you use that. If it's MSA, or even state-wide, well, then you use that.

It's annoying and intellectually dubious to say the least.

look up MSA's if you prefer Pittsburgh is still the only one with more deaths than births and has a higher population loss than the Buffalo MSA.
Certainly a metro trying to stem a population drop should not look to one dropping faster for inspiration.

BTW I never use City only data - it is irrelevant. Less than 20% of the population of WNY lives within the City of Buffalo.