Buffalo & Detroit similarities and differences

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by BuffaloLight

So... yes rail did play its roll in the death of downtown along with a plethora of socio-economic reasons. It was simply a well intentioned spoke in downtowns death wheel.

Urban legend, just like all the land Frank Sinatra supposedly owned in Niagara Falls.

Armchair planners continue to say that the Metro Rail pedestrian mall on Main Street in downtown Buffalo was responsible for the decline of the street's retail businesses. Actually, it's a myth; the department stores along Main closed either because the entire chain folded, including downtown and suburban stores (L.L. Berger, Hens and Kelly, Sattler's, Grant's), or because they were bought out by a national chain, who eventually closed the downtown location because they "didn't do urban" (Hengerer's > Sibley's > Kauffman's, AM&As > Bon-Ton), despite the stores being profitable.

Also, many other American downtowns without pedestrian/transit malls lost their department stores around the same time Buffalo lots its stores; Rochester, Syracuse, Cleveland, Toledo, and so on.

[elmwood]

Originally Posted by Port North

Wow! That is really nice! The census tracts in that area are Over 80% African-American too. Something you just wouldn't see in upstate NY cities on such a large scale.

The closest thing in New York City would be Jamiaca Estates (Queens), but I think Sherwood Forest is nicer.

There were two waves to the Great Northern Migration; generally well-educated blacks from urban areas before WWII, many being business owners, and poorer, less-educated blacks from rural areas during and after WWII.

Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and NYC got many first wave GNM migrants from Atlanta, Birmingham, Tulsa, Montgomery, New Orleans, and the like. Thus, to this day they have large black middle classes. The vast majority of Buffalo's black population have roots in the second GNM wave, when they came from rural Mississippi and Alabama to work in the area's factories.

[BuffaloLight]

Originally Posted by elmwood

Urban legend, just like all the land Frank Sinatra supposedly owned in Niagara Falls.

Armchair planners continue to say that the Metro Rail pedestrian mall on Main Street in downtown Buffalo was responsible for the decline of the street's retail businesses. Actually, it's a myth; the department stores along Main closed either because the entire chain folded, including downtown and suburban stores (L.L. Berger, Hens and Kelly, Sattler's, Grant's), or because they were bought out by a national chain, who eventually closed the downtown location because they "didn't do urban" (Hengerer's > Sibley's > Kauffman's, AM&As > Bon-Ton), despite the stores being profitable.

Also, many other American downtowns without pedestrian/transit malls lost their department stores around the same time Buffalo lots its stores; Rochester, Syracuse, Cleveland, Toledo, and so on.

Well according to my deceased grandfather who had a small shop on main st everything started going after white flight and under and the metro rail was supposed to save it all. He lost his business during the construction oddly enough. After that main st was all but dead anyway. According to him the malls were closer, cheaper, and more convenient. But what do I know I am just taking a dead man's word who lived through it all.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by elmwood

There were two waves to the Great Northern Migration; generally well-educated blacks from urban areas before WWII, many being business owners, and poorer, less-educated blacks from rural areas during and after WWII.

Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit and NYC got many first wave GNM migrants from Atlanta, Birmingham, Tulsa, Montgomery, New Orleans, and the like. Thus, to this day they have large black middle classes. The vast majority of Buffalo's black population have roots in the second GNM wave, when they came from rural Mississippi and Alabama to work in the area's factories.

Actually, Buffalo's Black community goes back much further and urban renewal destroyed much of the early Black neighborhoods. Buffalo also got quite few Black migrants due to the steel industry. If you notice that Lackawanna has a long time Black community and that is due to the steel mill there. Hamlin Park was a mostly Black, middle class area that became that way after WW2. Here's a great timeline with great information:
African-American History

[Toronto416]

Both Buffalo and Detroit have some things in common with my hometown (Duluth, Minnesota; pop. 95,000; the westernmost city on the Great Lakes/Lake Superior). The frustrating things are more recent but very noticeable: 1) Once kids turn 18 and graduate high school, they are GONE. They're not coming back because there are no jobs, the cities are designed so that you have to own a car in order to survive...when the roads were built decades ago, they were built wide. Duluth, for example, was predicted to become a city of over 2 million people, since it is the westernmost port on the Great Lakes; with the rail industry, it would be the perfect place to get product off the ships, and send everything via rail too all points west. Those jobs and dreams went to Chicago instead, over 8-9 hours south of here. 2) The 25-45 year olds who DO choose to stay or relocate here are in for some very bad news: if you're single, you'll hate it. Our cities are typically for those who are either single mothers, couples, or married people with kids. There is nothing to do and nobody to date for young adults who happen to be single or don't have kids. People often spend 3 hours driving one way to a singles event.

3) Detroit, Buffalo and Duluth all missed out while other progressive cities thrived. (usually home to the best Universities in the US as well as Fortune 500 companies). Young people going places want to be around others like them, and those people are usually in cities where there are lots of opportunities beyond college-level classes being offered. Duluth's downtown skyline never changes; as I said before, it was guessed there would be 1-2 million people living there by now - you can tell by the wide streets, lots of high schools (even though today, there are only two), and a 'big city' feel when you look towards downtown from the hillside. Buffalo is similar, and Detroit has an amazing skyline - even moreso when you realize half those buildings are empty and rotted inside. All three cities aren't necessarily 'scary' as much as they are unusual - when coming back from Toronto on the bus (where we were stuck for 90 minutes because some idiot got on the bus in Toronto with guns and drugs in his backpack - needless to say we were all stuck there as well, even though we cleared customs) I missed my hotel reservation and had to find somewhere else to stay. Walking downtown in Buffalo at 11pm is very similar to Duluth - there's NOBODY walking around. In Duluth, despite the beautiful waterfront, downtown is a place to work - not hang around, no fun concerts or cool stuff to do - so after 6pm there's no reason to be downtown. Unfortunately, downtown Duluth's bus depot, grimy mall, and fast food places have become a home to the many runaways, hookers, end-of-the-line addicts, and other hopeless people who are lost in life. Certainly nobody wants to bring their kids downtown to look at that, and nobody with a few bucks has any interest in buying a condo when their view is that.

[doat]

Buffalo is a much better place to live. As a former resident of Buffalo and current resident of a Detroit area suburb.
Detroit is similar to Bagdad.

[TheITGuy]

Originally Posted by doat

Buffalo is a much better place to live. As a former resident of Buffalo and current resident of a Detroit area suburb.
Detroit is similar to Bagdad.

You're only saying that because of the extremely high Arab population

Seriously, and I might be biased here; but Buffalo is much nicer than Detroit. Although, I've only visited Detroit.

About the only thing I prefer Detroit over Buffalo in, is the club scene in Detroit. I wish City Club would just pick up, and move here :lol:

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by doat

Buffalo is a much better place to live. As a former resident of Buffalo and current resident of a Detroit area suburb.
Detroit is similar to Bagdad.

If your name, doat, refers to your area here, you should tell the board how "rough" that area is (* maybe not on the city line by Villa, but a lot of the rest).

Soprry it is so bad there.

[doat]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

If your name, doat, refers to your area here, you should tell the board how "rough" that area is (* maybe not on the city line by Villa, but a lot of the rest).

Soprry it is so bad there.

Not quite sure what your asking. But if you are a resident of Buffalo you know what the answer to your question maybe. If your a resident of Detroit you also know that.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by doat

Not quite sure what your asking. But if you are a resident of Buffalo you know what the answer to your question maybe. If your a resident of Detroit you also know that.

Doat is a street on the east side of Buffalo.. Not a very safe area.(I worked over that way in the 1980s and it has gotten way worse) If Detroit is worse, I feel sorry for you.