Building up suburbia is what's killing Buffalo (Springs: how much, lawyers)

[aurorawatcher]

Yes it would. But they also need to reopen Main St to traffic. The rail system killed Main St. I grew up with all the big stores downtown. And remember taking the bus downtown to the stores and then to HS when I got older.

And as far as chain resturants go I remember Swiss Chalet didn't have a large sign out front of their place. So they could put a couple of new resturants downtown. Not saying it would beat mom&pop resturants but it would offer people somewhere to go and eat.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Anyone remember Leonardo's Grotto? ( on Franklin or pearl, I forget which -- it folded in the 70s. ) Fantastic Italian food. I also vote for down with chains.... we only go to individually owned restaurants. For the person who liked Swiss Chalet, there is still one on Transit by French (Forestream area) of very South Lancaster ( I don't like the stuff, but my husband does)

We should reopen Main -- the money spent on the "train to nowhere" was enough to hand every person then in the city tens of thousands! Remember, when it was built, the LaSalle station was to be the line to the Tonawandas... and Tonawanda tore up the track. The line out to North Campus never got built ( light rail above ground). I think one was supposed to go south and it never did either. Suburbs were never in favor of the blasted thing.

When I moved here, there were 7 or 8 dept. stores downtown ( not counting Woolworths or Grants types). My hubby said many closed when he was a kid. Buffalo killed itself.

[FedupWNY]

My thought is to save the rail, no point in spending millions to take it out in hopes of Main Street commerce when mostly all of downtown is vacant. Removing the metro rail would put us no further ahead than what the state of Buffalo is now. Though, having shopping districts throughout the city like what it used to be like would generate a return of shopping in Buffalo, even if it's some of corporate chains.

[MASC]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

My thought is to save the rail, no point in spending millions to take it out in hopes of Main Street commerce when mostly all of downtown is vacant. Removing the metro rail would put us no further ahead than what the state of Buffalo is now. Though, having shopping districts throughout the city like what it used to be like would generate a return of shopping in Buffalo, even if it's some of corporate chains.

Not sure if I'll hit a hot button here, but I believe that Metro Rail should actually be expanded. Much of the infrastructure is already in place. There is a local group (link here) trying to generate support to add a new line to the airport, and my understanding is that there is an "off shoot" already started for an Elmwood line. If memory serves me, their plan is to use existing abandoned rail lines. I think it would be great for Buffalo to have a better train system, although I'm not entirely sure of the fiscal practicality.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by MASC

Not sure if I'll hit a hot button here, but I believe that Metro Rail should actually be expanded. Much of the infrastructure is already in place. There is a local group (link here) trying to generate support to add a new line to the airport, and my understanding is that there is an "off shoot" already started for an Elmwood line. If memory serves me, their plan is to use existing abandoned rail lines. I think it would be great for Buffalo to have a better train system, although I'm not entirely sure of the fiscal practicality.

I'm all for expanding the rail rather than the cost of ripping it out, I'd first like to see commerce returned first, so that there's something to expand upon. A metro rail system in a dead downtown is what we already have.

[livecontent]

One of the problems that Buffalo cannot get better and cannot compete with the suburbs is that the towns, cities, land, environment of Western New York are just too beautiful and great.

I grew up in WNY and now live near Denver. The city of Denver is much more vibrant and appealing because the towns, cities, land, environment in the West are not as beautiful and great. The west never developed the nice little towns and hamlets that you see in the east.

The land in WNY is much more fertile and it has water. These are the good conditions that many areas from Denver and much of the west lacks. You will find in Denver that the home lots are smaller and homes closer together for one reason, the expense of expanding water resources.

I left WNY over 30 years ago and I am very happy in Colorado but there can be no argument that Denver is a more economically stable and cleaner city than Buffalo. That is because the west has fewer choices, the cities are the main and sometimes the only choice to have a good quality of live.

Also, there, to me, can be no argument that the towns and land surrounding Buffalo are much better than those that surround Denver. Among many reasons, it is because the land in the west contains hardscrabble agricultural/ranching towns that were not built with the amenities of towns in the east.

You people in Western New York have great land and resources and great towns surround the core city; that has given you a choice. You have abandoned Buffalo because you have much better place to live. In Colorado, we do not have the choices and we have continue to move to Denver and redevelop.

This post is just a thought of what I have been thinking about for a number of years. How do you fix it??? Should you fix it??? Do you need a vibrant, clean, safe and growing Buffalo?? I think you do because the region will benefit from a strong city.

Livecontent

[ocean2026]

Moderator cut: personal attack Starbucks didn't kill Seattle nor did all the fast growing suburbs. Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and hundred more cities have build up their suburbs and are doing just fine.

Loss of manufacturing - high taxes and an unattractive climate Killed Buffalo - if one reads the Wall St Journal and sees yesterdays story on the future of housing, while it predicts the housing recession may end in late 2009 up to 2011 - it said specifically places like Upstate NY, parts of Ohio, western pa and SE Michigan will continue to decline for the above and demographic reasons.

This thread is akin to shooting someone 5 times in heart and then noticing a box of Kleenex and saying he died of a bad cold.

[MASC]

Originally Posted by ocean2026

Any of you who buy Fedups thread are delusional - perhaps drugs are involved. Starbucks didn't kill Seattle nor did all the fast growing suburbs. Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, NYC and hundred more cities have build up their suburbs and are doing just fine.

Loss of manufacturing - high taxes and an unattractive climate Killed Buffalo - if one reads the Wall St Journal and sees yesterdays story on the future of housing, while it predicts the housing recession may end in late 2009 up to 2011 - it said specifically places like Upstate NY, parts of Ohio, western pa and SE Michigan will continue to decline for the above and demographic reasons.

This thread is akin to shooting someone 5 times in heart and then noticing a box of Kleenex and saying he died of a bad cold.

Upstate NY is a pretty big place and bit too broad to say we are having the same housing recession. I am a local real estate agent and certainly have not seen a decline in home sale price. While our home values may not be rising at the same rate that they were two years ago we are still seeing increases in our property values....thank goodness. Please read this Buffalo News article that is specific to our area and based on NAR (National Association of Realtors) info. I personally have been quite busy as an agent!

[BuffaloTransplant]

Most main streets in Buffalo had streetcars until the late 1950s ( my husband rembers them as a kid). When they did away with them and put in buses, the trolley rails were paved over. You used to be able to see what was left of the roundabout ( turn around) at Main and Kenmore, where the Walgreens is now. If the streetcar rails are still there, there is a feasability to run streetcars, but maybe not light rail like Main has. I doubt there are tracks to connect to Elmwood, unless you go way down by the HSBC Arena The rails were never on Kenmore, so going across at the north end is not an option. The problem in the city is that we now are so full of cars that you cannot carve a "third lane" out for streetcars/rail. Plus, the city can't keep the streets plowed now.... that would be worse. In case some of you don't know it, the entire rail system (underground) was continually pumped out during it's construction due to the fact it was below the water table in many places -- same as the 33 east of Parkside in the big "dip". All that has to be drained into the creeks... and we all know what the creeks are like in spring. Underground would be a foolish option and unless someone can find a parking solution, I doubt the rail is adding on.

[ocean2026]

I had read that article and read it again sales 6% down 3% appreciation. That 3% is probably within a margin of error and itself hardly significant.

Perhaps YOU should read yesterdays Wall Street Journal which paints a bleak future for the areas I mentioned before.

At any rate its not the suburbs that have killed Buffalo as is claimed in this thread.

By the way I really like Buffalo - I love the buildings but the taxes are horrible and I will be very specific in 2006 I wanted to buy 960 Busti where Busti turns into Niagara, a 55,000 sq ft bldg that had been abandoned. I was told an offer of $375k would do it and the only thing I needed to do after the inspection was check the taxes. .. $23,078 I had a cow! My $700k house in Texas is about $6300 a year and we are all complaining.

So what happened? I chickened out because with those taxes - I would have needed quick cash flow. NO one else wanted to buy it either and it decayed and last year vandals stipped out all the copper and wiring. The assessors were adamant about their assessment before but now this stipped building has finally had a tax reduction - TOO LITTLE and TOO LATE.

That's what kills Buffalo. NO one will move there for the weather - Few will move there for jobs ( and for every one of them there are 3 moving out because they need a job). There arent many people like me who love old buildings enough to go to Buffalo and buy one. The population is getting older and that will also kill housing.