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I'm wondering if there is a highly or mostly Black neighborhood that is solidly middle class in the Buffalo area at all. Even Syracuse and Rochester have such neighborhoods. I find it hard to believe that Buffalo doesn't have a neighborhood like that.
Hamlin Park was (is?) the traditional middle class black neighborhood in Buffalo. However most middle class blacks today live in North Buffalo, Parkside, Eggertsviile and Cleveland Hill though they are not dominant even in these areas. You do find them scattered here and there throughout the Buffalo Metro but nothing concentrated like a Prince Georges County, MD or middle class black suburbs in the Atlanta area.
This, and I believe Town officials know they have to team up with Buffalo to stabilize the city line area.
Isn't it interesting how people in the Denver area consider the north side of Aurora to be a slum, yet physically it's comparable to what would be considered a decent lower-middle class to middle-class neighborhood back in suburban Buffalo? Same thing closer to you in many parts of Westminster.
Arvada is more of a middle-class to move-up suburb. I can't think of an equivalent to Cheektowaga in the Denver area. Maybe a combination of Thornton and Commerce City with no Hispanics?
Obviously, you have experience with the Denver area. When I got here in the 1970s, Denver to me was a similar size to Buffalo in the 1950s. However, there were big differences. There was not the ingrained racial devides and prejudices that existed in Buffalo. The neighborhoods were not as delimited, as per race, as in Buffalo. There were no areas that were as bad as the East Side of Buffalo. Five Points in Denver was not that decayed with masses of abandoned homes. Public transit was much better as it went far out into the suburbs through many counties.
Today, Denver is growing and much bigger than Buffalo. People are moving back to the city; all neigborhoods are being revitilized. Downtown Denver is vibrant with new buildings and housing. More people are arriving from Europe and Asia. The City of Denver is predominately white, with even more of a white electorate, but has elected an Hispanic Mayor and Black Mayor--generally people get along well. Public transportation is expanding rapidly with large rail projects. Suburban areas work in league with the city to make a better metropolitan area.
I always believe that Denver is what Buffalo should have become. Buffalo had much more advantages and a head start. I think the advantage of Denver is that it is the major and capital city of Colorado--so more investments are put in place, and there is more concern for this city. New York State is controlled by New York City and the state is not balanced--there is very little concern from the People of Downstate for the cities and towns of Western New York and Upstate New York. Buffalo, being the second largest city, is so far behind in population and influence, from NYC, that is does not matter to the powers that be.
Colorado is a much smaller state, in terms of population and is more manageable, while New York State is just too big with too much human divide from one area of the state to the other; Colorado takes more in consideration all areas of the State in the policies to make it better, even though the land is vast and expansive with a huge physical divide of the Rockies. Will Denver decay and fall apart--perhaps, but not in my lifetime--it seems to be still on the rise as a place to live. Buffalo was in decline when I was already growing up in the 50s and now is in much worse shape than it was yesterday.
I have also said that the towns and villages of Western New York are great place to live; the land is beautiful with so many amenities BUT it needs a good core city and Buffalo is not that city and never will be in the forceable future; and Cheektowaga--its fate is tied to Buffalo.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 02-16-2011 at 08:11 PM..
Obviously, you have experience with the Denver area. When I got here in the 1970s, Denver to me was a similar size to Buffalo in the 1950s. However, there were big differences. There was not the ingrained racial devides and prejudices that existed in Buffalo. The neighborhoods were not as delimited, as per race, as in Buffalo. There were no areas that were as bad as the East Side of Buffalo. Five Points in Denver was not that decayed with masses of abandoned homes. Public transit was much better as it went far out into the suburbs through many counties.
Today, Denver is growing and much bigger than Buffalo. People are moving back to the city; all neigborhoods are being revitilized. Downtown Denver is vibrant with new buildings and housing. More people are arriving from Europe and Asia. The City of Denver is predominately white, with even more of a white electorate, but has elected an Hispanic Mayor and Black Mayor--generally people get along well. Public transportation is expanding rapidly with large rail projects. Suburban areas work in league with the city to make a better metropolitan area.
I always believe that Denver is what Buffalo should have become. Buffalo had much more advantages and a head start. I think the advantage of Denver is that it is the major and capital city of Colorado--so more investments are put in place, and there is more concern for this city. New York State is controlled by New York City and the state is not balanced--there is very little concern from the People of Downstate for the cities and towns of Western New York and Upstate New York. Buffalo, being the second largest city, is so far behind in population and influence, from NYC, that is does not matter to the powers that be.
Colorado is a much smaller state, in terms of population and is more manageable, while New York State is just too big with too much human divide from one area of the state to the other; Colorado takes more in consideration all areas of the State in the policies to make it better, even though the land is vast and expansive with a huge physical divide of the Rockies. Will Denver decay and fall apart--perhaps, but not in my lifetime--it seems to be still on the rise as a place to live. Buffalo was in decline when I was already growing up in the 50s and now is in much worse shape than it was yesterday.
I have also said that the towns and villages of Western New York are great place to live; the land is beautiful with so many amenities BUT it needs a good core city and Buffalo is not that city and never will be in the forceable future; and Cheektowaga--its fate is tied to Buffalo.
Livecontent
I think what he have to keep in mind(not to get too far off base here), is that Denver is THE major city for a big region that is very sparsely populated. So, in a sense, it does have a NYC type of influence in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region. Denver has always been an important and cosmopolitan city due to it's location, to the point that many Federal government agencies have offices there. Denver is now about a third Hispanic and has been in the 12-13% range for about 4 decades in terms of the Black population's make up in the city. So, it's about 50/50 in terms of White/"Minority". Denver also is 153.3 sq. mi versus 40.6 sq. mi. for Buffalo in terms of land size. So, a lot of the first ring suburbs in Buffalo would be outer city neighborhoods if using Denver's boundaries/standards. Denver's population actually was higher in 1970 than it was in the 1980 and 1990 censuses as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denver#Demographics So, it's had it's time with population loss as well.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the ethnic aspect of Buffalo and of NE and MW cities is different than most cities in other regions. So, many neighborhoods were ethnically concentrated, let alone racial concentrated. Even on the same side of town, you can find various ethnic neighborhoods, like the East Side of Buffalo had and to some degree still has. Not only was there Polish on the East side, but there were Germans, Jews of various nationalities and even the Michigan Ave. area of the East Side has had a high concentration of Black folks for a very long time.
I think what he have to keep in mind(not to get too far off base here), is that Denver is THE major city for a big region that is very sparsely populated. So, in a sense, it does have a NYC type of influence in Colorado and the Rocky Mountain region. Denver has always been an important and cosmopolitan city due to it's location, to the point that many Federal government agencies have offices there. Denver is now about a third Hispanic and has been in the 12-13% range for about 4 decades in terms of the Black population's make up in the city. So, it's about 50/50 in terms of White/"Minority". Denver also is 153.3 sq. mi versus 40.6 sq. mi. for Buffalo in terms of land size. So, a lot of the first ring suburbs in Buffalo would be outer city neighborhoods if using Denver's boundaries/standards. Denver's population actually was higher in 1970 than it was in the 1980 and 1990 censuses as well: Denver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So, it's had it's time with population loss as well.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the ethnic aspect of Buffalo and of NE and MW cities is different than most cities in other regions. So, many neighborhoods were ethnically concentrated, let alone racial concentrated. Even on the same side of town, you can find various ethnic neighborhoods, like the East Side of Buffalo had and to some degree still has. Not only was there Polish on the East side, but there were Germans, Jews of various nationalities and even the Michigan Ave. area of the East Side has had a high concentration of Black folks for a very long time.
Yes Denver had a time of losing population but it was not that dramatic as other cities and now has been growing for a number of years. Denver was never decayed like Buffalo, even in the worse neighborhoods. It is now more than 50 per cent white with more educated, emptying nestors from the suburbs, and creative people from all parts of the country moving into the city--which tends to be white but there are many creative/rich/educated Hispanics and Blacks moving into the city.
My point about Denver elected people of color for a mayor was significant because most registered voters are white. Buffalo just does not have the same qualities of racial toleration that Denver has had for many years; that is going to work against the rebirth of Buffalo.
Yes, Denver is a major core city, serving the sparsely populated Great West, especially the High Plains including many neighboring States--it certainly has more relative importance than Buffalo in serving a wider region. To say that it is similiar to NYC??? NYC is a fat, overgrown beast. Denver is a manageable city of about 650,000? (we will find out in a few weeks from the census). In addition, the attitude from Denver to other regions; and other regions to Denver is not the same belligerent, arrogant, attitude of the people of New York City to their vassal slaved cities in upstate NY. It is about time you take to the street and dispose these Feudal Lords.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 02-17-2011 at 11:43 AM..
Yes Denver had a time of losing population but it was not that dramatic as other cities and now has been growing for a number of years. Denver was never decayed like Buffalo, even in the worse neighborhoods. It is now more than 50 per cent white with more educated, emptying nestors from the suburbs, and creative people from all parts of the country moving into the city--which tends to be white but there are many creative/rich/educated Hispanics and Blacks moving into the city.
My point about Denver elected people of color for a mayor was significant because most registered voters are white. Buffalo just does not have the same qualities of racial toleration that Denver has had for many years; that is going to work against the rebirth of Buffalo.
Yes, Denver is a major core city, serving the sparsely populated Great West, especially the High Plains including many neighboring States--it certainly has more relative importance than Buffalo in serving a wider region. To say that it is similiar to NYC??? NYC is a fat, overgrown beast. Denver is a manageable city of about 650,000? (we will find out in a few weeks from the census). In addition, the attitude from Denver to other regions; and other regions to Denver is not the same belligerent, arrogant, attitude of the people of New York City to their vassal slaved cities in upstate NY. It is about time you take to the street and dispose these Feudal Lords.
Livecontent
My point about the comparison is more about being the major hubof a region.
To continue, Wellington Webb and I believe former mayor Pena were Denver natives. So, that helps and Denver is known for being a pretty "liberal" city. Buffalo is still a mostly White city and I believe that most of the registered voters are as well. So, it's not like Brown got in office in a mostly Black city. Yes, Buffalo is around 40% Black, but I'm not sure if it was JUST the Black vote that got him into office.
To continue, Wellington Webb and I believe former mayor Pena were Denver natives. So, that helps and Denver is known for being a pretty "liberal" city. Buffalo is still a mostly White city and I believe that most of the registered voters are as well. So, it's not like Brown got in office in a mostly Black city. Yes, Buffalo is around 40% Black, but I'm not sure if it was JUST the Black vote that got him into office.
Interesting Good Points about Buffalo. Frederico Pena was born, raised and educated in Texas and the Hispanic vote certainly helped get him elected, just I would assume with Wellington Webb with the Black Vote. They were both very good mayors. Hickenlooper, the newly elected governor, was the mayor and he was raised in the east. The Current Mayor is from Cuba.
My main point is that Denver has much less racial tension than Buffalo--certainly less when I grew up--near the east side of Buffalo. My city of Arvada is a much better town than Cheektowaga for quality of MY LIFE--and that is what is important.
NYC is a fat, overgrown beast. Denver is a manageable city of about 650,000? (we will find out in a few weeks from the census). In addition, the attitude from Denver to other regions; and other regions to Denver is not the same belligerent, arrogant, attitude of the people of New York City to their vassal slaved cities in upstate NY. It is about time you take to the street and dispose these Feudal Lords.
Livecontent
The people down here would be happy to let upstate NY go their own way. The tax and regulatory structure puts upstate at a competitive disadvantage while at the same time downstate tax revenue is used to subsidize much poorer upstate.
It's win-win, upstate gets a better tax and regulatory structure and thus will allow it to have a more self-supporting business climate and downstaters don't have to have their tax dollars redistributed.
Hamlin Park was (is?) the traditional middle class black neighborhood in Buffalo. However most middle class blacks today live in North Buffalo, Parkside, Eggertsviile and Cleveland Hill though they are not dominant even in these areas. You do find them scattered here and there throughout the Buffalo Metro but nothing concentrated like a Prince Georges County, MD or middle class black suburbs in the Atlanta area.
The Great Northern Migration had two waves; more middle-class, skilled workers and business owners before WWII, and poorer, less skilled sharecroppers and laborers that migrated during and after WWII to work in the then-booming factories of the Rust Belt. Compared to other Rust Belt cities, Buffalo got a lower percentage of first wave migrants, and a higher percentage of second wave migrants. Buffalo received a disproportionately large number of the less skilled, less educated migrants from the south. Buffalo's very small black middle class was the result.
Some cities had a similar experience with white migrants from the south. Ashtabula was once a well-off city, until it was flooded by poor Appalachian whites during and after WWII. Some parts of the Cleveland and Detroit areas have white ghettos that are every bit as bad as Buffalo's East Side, with most residents having roots in West Virginia and eastern Kentucky rather than the Delta region.
The Great Northern Migration had two waves; more middle-class, skilled workers and business owners before WWII, and poorer, less skilled sharecroppers and laborers that migrated during and after WWII to work in the then-booming factories of the Rust Belt. Compared to other Rust Belt cities, Buffalo got a lower percentage of first wave migrants, and a higher percentage of second wave migrants. Buffalo received a disproportionately large number of the less skilled, less educated migrants from the south. Buffalo's very small black middle class was the result.
Some cities had a similar experience with white migrants from the south. Ashtabula was once a well-off city, until it was flooded by poor Appalachian whites during and after WWII. Some parts of the Cleveland and Detroit areas have white ghettos that are every bit as bad as Buffalo's East Side, with most residents having roots in West Virginia and eastern Kentucky rather than the Delta region.
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