Charter Schools in Buffalo (New York, Kenmore: fit in, home, private school)

[coldwynn]

Does anyone have an insider's perspective on charter schools in Buffalo, something not available from the schools website?

How do they perform relative to city/subburb schools? Why are there so many in Buffalo (just off the top of my head: Tapestry, Oracle, Applied Tech, Enterprise, Pinnacle, etc)? What would be the difference between HutchTech and the Charter School for Applied Technologies?

Also, I was under the wrong impression that charters were supposed to be geared toward a specific discipline or approach. Although some do function as normal schools plus, others seem to be just normal without the plus, and those that do not have the additional discipline focus seem to play up a specific learning approach that is too fuzzy (using technical teaching language that in the end seem to be nothing special). This begs the question of is there any advantage to sending our kids to charter schools?

[ckhthankgod]

I think they have another one in Western NY Maritime too:Western New York Maritime Charter School

Here's an article about charter school gradutaions:Four charter high schools grant diplomas to their first graduates : City & Region : The Buffalo News

[mikesuicide]

For starters the parents of charter school kids seem to take more of an active roll in their kids education. This translates to less troublesome kids so teachers can concentrate on scholastics

[MarineFromBuffalo]

My mom is a teacher in the Buffalo public school system and she hates Charter schools. She says the education you get from them is substandard. At Hutch Tech I recieved my Cisco certification (computer networking). Hutch Tech also made us go above and beyond instead of the standard 3 maths and 3 sciences needed to get a high school diplomia we were required to take 4 of each. We also had our major.

[mikesuicide]

Its simply an untrue statement. The schools have to be certified, they have nationaly recognized curriculums and most students who leave them go on to excel in other schools. Hutch tech is one of the better city schools, I am a product of the city schools and I have little good to say about them. Most teachers are dinosaurs that teach with old iron fist techniques that have been proven to be unsuccessful. City schools do not groom for higher eductaion, at least they didnt when I was in school.

[BuffaloTransplant]

I taught in the Buffalo Schools for 30 years. Charter schools sap the resources from the public system(they get public money). They can toss the problem kids out. They only have to take who they want in the first place. This is exactly like a private school, only paid for with your school taxes. Many charter schools in the area hire the teachers out of the public system and some retired public administrators run some. So, Mike, the idea that they are "good" simply as they are certified and parents take an interest is invalid. They don't have to take the students they don't want so maybe they have an easier time teaching. (You didn't like your schools, so no publics are any good.) Marine has a better view of the charter concept: they are created by small groups of people and those boards set the curriculum and standards. The are given a temporary charter. They get a few years to prove a standard of success according to the state testing norms. Some never got recertified and the kids were tossed back into the public schools. Some have been recertified. It does not guarantee a better school. It guarantees the school can operate for a few more years.

BTW: for the person who was asking about Applied Technologies, it is located on the other side of the Buffalo Kenmore line and the city was recently toying with the idea of stopping issuing bus passes to any student (parochial, private, or charter) attending outside the city lines. I don't know if they will go though with it; by state law, a district is supposed to provide transportation for a distance outside of the district for students in private and parochial. I don't know how charters fit in there: they are private but funded with tax money , not tuition.

[MarineFromBuffalo]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

I taught in the Buffalo Schools for 30 years. Charter schools sap the resources from the public system(they get public money). They can toss the problem kids out. They only have to take who they want in the first place. This is exactly like a private school, only paid for with your school taxes. Many charter schools in the area hire the teachers out of the public system and some retired public administrators run some. So, Mike, the idea that they are "good" simply as they are certified and parents take an interest is invalid. They don't have to take the students they don't want so maybe they have an easier time teaching. (You didn't like your schools, so no publics are any good.) Marine has a better view of the charter concept: they are created by small groups of people and those boards set the curriculum and standards. The are given a temporary charter. They get a few years to prove a standard of success according to the state testing norms. Some never got recertified and the kids were tossed back into the public schools. Some have been recertified. It does not guarantee a better school. It guarantees the school can operate for a few more years.

BTW: for the person who was asking about Applied Technologies, it is located on the other side of the Buffalo Kenmore line and the city was recently toying with the idea of stopping issuing bus passes to any student (parochial, private, or charter) attending outside the city lines. I don't know if they will go though with it; by state law, a district is supposed to provide transportation for a distance outside of the district for students in private and parochial. I don't know how charters fit in there: they are private but funded with tax money , not tuition.

Thanks for explaining the difference. "Mommy said" isn't the answer that most people are looking for.

[mikesuicide]

I still think that until parents take an active role in their kids scholastic responsiblities, having charter schools are a good alternative for city residents. I have not based my opinion of city schools on one school. I went to schools #71, #80, #68, #37, #38, #85 and Seneca Vocational High School. The fact that problem children get 'the boot' from charter schools gives other students the ablity to learn. I would have never made it in a charter school. I was booted from to grammar schools and my parents were very invloved with me. There really wan't any progressive teaching techniques implimented to modifiy my behavior. I was put in study halls. Until parents are held responsible when there children are unruly and teachers are held responsible for their classrooms acheivments, charter schools are necessary.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by mikesuicide

I still think that until parents take an active role in their kids scholastic responsiblities, having charter schools are a good alternative for city residents. I have not based my opinion of city schools on one school. I went to schools #71, #80, #68, #37, #38, #85 and Seneca Vocational High School. The fact that problem children get 'the boot' from charter schools gives other students the ablity to learn. I would have never made it in a charter school. I was booted from to grammar schools and my parents were very invloved with me. There really wan't any progressive teaching techniques implimented to modifiy my behavior. I was put in study halls. Until parents are held responsible when there children are unruly and teachers are held responsible for their classrooms acheivments, charter schools are necessary.

You are right. You never would have made it in a Charter.

The USUAL reason kids bump "school to school" in Buffalo is that they are problems and a principal kicks them out. The other reason is parents move excessively and the kid learns nothing in a cohesive fashion. If someone handed me your permanent record card ( it follows you school to school and lists your grades, etc.), I would have looked twice at someone with 6 schools in K-8.

I know most of those schools. You appear to be in your 20s. None of them was great when you were attending; either on the east or west side. #68 is now a charter ( believe me, the principal would dump you out), #80 is strict now and Seneca is going to be a grade school (Voc Ed is gone).

No wonder you hate the schools.

[mikesuicide]

Originally Posted by BuffaloTransplant

You are right. You never would have made it in a Charter.

The USUAL reason kids bump "school to school" in Buffalo is that they are problems and a principal kicks them out. The other reason is parents move excessively and the kid learns nothing in a cohesive fashion. If someone handed me your permanent record card ( it follows you school to school and lists your grades, etc.), I would have looked twice at someone with 6 schools in K-8.

I know most of those schools. You appear to be in your 20s. None of them was great when you were attending; either on the east or west side. #68 is now a charter ( believe me, the principal would dump you out), #80 is strict now and Seneca is going to be a grade school (Voc Ed is gone).

No wonder you hate the schools.

I'm in my late 30's. My wife is a teacher at Tapestry. She has tried to work for the city schools twice and the system is completely convoluted and inefficent. The teachers are not given the necesarry tools to succeed and I'm not sure they would have them if the city had the extra money the charters are getting. The McKinley debacle is just one example of a laundry list of travisties and injustices that exist in these schools.

We are supposed to teach kids to be patient, tolerent, accepting and forgiving, yet they witness a school administration that is petty and argumentitive. Think about The honor student at McKinely who came from a broken home and still managed to excel. When other students look at her as a role model then see her become a target, they say 'whats the point?' Kids need structure and discpline, but they also need to feel safe and given the ablitiy to voice their feelings.