This is why the Buffalo Bills need to leave Erie County! (Rochester: sale, buying)

[XKV]

If the Bills have a psychological benefit to the people of Western NY, then is there a psychological cost to them being such a lousy team the last 10 or 12 years? I could care less about Buffalo being on the national scene 3 months out of the year - I'd rather live in an area with competent government, decent civic services, a strong economy, active cultural/artistic life, and good educational systems. If that's the price for not being on the national scene, then so be it. I think that our priorities in this county and the State in general are really at odds with what most people want. This area should be more than just the home of the Buffalo Bills or the Sabres.

That $7.8M may be chump change to some, but it's money that could be used to fix roads, develop the Waterfront or Erie Canal, improve UB and the local colleges, consolidate some of the local hospitals around here, redevelop some struggling neighborhoods, streamline government, help out with food banks struggling in the current economic downturn, and more.

Does anyone else feel that a lot of our leaders in Buffalo and statewide are particularly inept? They get re-elected year after year, Republican or Democrat, and this state seems to be continually going downhill. We need mandatory term limits, a 5- or 10-year ban on lobbying, full transparency on all government spending and private donations, AND someone willing to hold these politicians' feet to the fire. Yes, the Bills are popular with some of the folks in this region. Yet, why are none of our local leaders even willing to pose the question "Is it worth it?" in an open and substantive debate before the people who live here?

[NativeNYCer]

isn't there some quote about lies that says "there are lies, white lies and then there are statistics"?

i'm not a Bills fan, but i see how important the team is to the people who live here. and i've only been her for a few months.

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by MarineFromBuffalo

I am not saying taxing everyone for the Bills is right, but it is $12 a year. Go to the store and buy yourself a nice TV or some new applicances or something like that and you just spent more in a 30 minute shopping trip in taxes then what the Bills is going to cost you all year!

Going to the store and buying anything you like is a choice, paying more taxes for the Bills is not by choice, it's become another state mandate....... Supporting this tax hike for the Buffalo Bills is a support for corporate welfare

[aurorawatcher]

Corporate Blackmail is more like it.

[accbqjx]

In my opinion, the Bills are not positioned for the future NFL. At some point the organization will need to meet the leagues stadium standard. All of a sudden the puny $12 million a year becomes $750 million for a state of the art stadium with four times the number of corporate suites, higher ticket prices, and annual seat licenses. Don't expect any help from Albany either. We lost whatever representation we might have had, and I doubt our interim governor would be able to convince President Obama to give us the money.

Our Canadian friends will be getting a whiff of the NFL over the next few years. This however may be as close as they will get to an NFL team. We may at some point rely on a partnership with them, including commitments from their fortune 500 companies with deep pockets.

This is not your fathers NFL, and I for one would not be in favor of paying into a State sponsored "ponzi scheme" just for the honor of being financially abused.

[DOUBLE H]

An interesting item popped up on the AFC-NFC Pro Bowl a while ago regarding Ralph Wilson. Although I live a long ways from you, I was going to start a thread on it but settled on this one.

Mr. Wilson was nominated to the Pro Football Hall Of Fame; the selection committee made their picks two days before the Super Bowl,on January 30th. The last post I see here was on the 27th.

Lamar Hunt and Ralph Wilson are two of the most important figures in the formation of the American Football League. When Lamar Hunt witnessed the 1958 NFL Championship Game, he saw the potential for a new league on the horizon. He wanted to enter into the NFL but was turned down flat. The Dallas Cowboys had settled in with their franchise, dotting the i's and crossing the t's with then NFL commissioner Bert Bell. Hunt decided to start a league of his own, the American Football League.

One of the first people Hunt had contact with was Ralph Wilson, then Bud Adams (Houston Oilers), Barron Hilton (Los Angeles Chargers-later San Diego Chargers). These four people and four others formed the league. A few of the franchises were held together by duct tape, tiewire, and wishful thinking- namely the Denver Broncos, the New York Titans (later the Jets), and the Oakland Raiders (MORE on them coming up),

Forward to 1962. Buffalo's first couple seasons were pretty much ho hum, but then they signed Lou Saban. Saban gave them credibility, and he went after probably the top player in the CFL, fullback Cookie Gilchrist. With Gilchrist hitting a 1,000 yards a season, and Jack Kemp tossing the pigskin to Elbert Dubenion (nicknamed Golden Wheels), Buffalo became one of the top, if not THE top team in the league, challenging for the division for the next several years, and winning the AFL Championship in 1964 and 1965.

Back to today's Pro Bowl. Al Michaels interviewed Ralph Wilson at halftime. One of the things that was discussed was a $400,000 loan to the Oakland Raiders ownership. In 1961, the two worst clubs in the league on the field and at the gate were the Denver Broncos and the Oakland Raiders. Oakland, in fact, only drew 4,821 in their final home game against the Houston Oilers. Even though the Denver Broncos were hands down the doormat of the American Football League in its ten year history, at that time the Raiders were the worst. And without Ralph Wilson's help the Oakland franchise most certainly was going under. Wilson felt the AFL had to keep going; there was no other city that could take the franchise over just like that, to relocate to another city. What city would want them? Who had a stadium that was suitable that could take over the franchise?

Friends of mine who are ABSOLUTELY in the know with the Broncos told me decades ago the same thing could have happened to Denver. Until Gerald Phipps bought the club, there were syndicates out of Philadelphia and Atlanta wanting to buy the club and move it. From what I have been told is Wilson was monitoring the Denver situation slowly, but Gerald Phipps was well heeled financially and bought the club. It was my understanding that Wilson would have helped Denver like he did in Oakland. And the same offer was extended for Boston Patriot owner Billy Sullivan, who also was suffering money problems.

Those first couple years were lean to say the least. But after a few years Buffalo started establishing themselves as a key AFL franchise, drawing 25,000 a game and then 35 to 38,000 a game by 1963.

Ralph Wilson and Lamar Hunt were willing to do whatever it took to keep the league afloat. The NFL was still signing most of the top talent until the lid blew off with the New York Jets signing Joe Namath. When that happened, the league got instant credibility. The AFL-NFL merged a couple years later, and you know the rest.

I'd read all the posts before I typed this up. And I understand this is a very heated issue, as Denver had their own stadium situation. I just wanted to give the Buffalo folks a little background on the early beginnings of the franchise, that's all.

[Iontheprize]

I agree with a previous poster--The Bills ARE WNY!

GO BILLS!

dp

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by Iontheprize

I agree with a previous poster--The Bills ARE WNY!

GO BILLS!

dp

Agreed. Without the Bills, Buffalo and WNY (including surrounding areas) would be devastated and show yet another blow to our city that will indeed stunt our growth. Businesses will not want to move to a city when they just lost their main major league, often. In fact, some people that have transferred here that I know got season tickets immediately as they got here to support our team. Another guy said he would leave Buffalo due to the fact if the Bills leave. Our legacy in the NFL to too great to match.
Long live the Buffalo Bills!

Let's GO BUFFALO (Bills)!!! (Sabres are great too - but the Bills are more important, however)...

IMHO!!!

[FedupWNY]

Originally Posted by Buffalonian4life

Agreed. Without the Bills, Buffalo and WNY (including surrounding areas) would be devastated and show yet another blow to our city that will indeed stunt our growth. Businesses will not want to move to a city when they just lost their main major league, often.

No one's yet to explain in detail what this "devastated blow" would be, besdies personal enjoyment. If Buffalo will be complete doomsday without the Bills, it might be easy to have the facts at hand, right?

Businesses and population aren't investing (in droves) in the Buffalo area only because we have a football team here. In all the years the Bills have been in Buffalo, we've been an area of declining population, economic strain and increased taxes. I'm not saying the Bills are the cause for 2 out of the 3, but what I am saying is that having that football team here hasn't made our living like that of Utopia. Many cities throughout the Country don't have a pro team, and they are probably surviving better off than Buffalo. Other cities without a pro team don't have the worry of tax increases for selective entertainment. Buffalo is an area where people are starving in the streets, yet Ralph Wilson, with his hand out, will always get his slice of corporate welfare pie. Yeah. Let's go Bills! Take taxpayers to the poor house.

[Buffalonian4life]

Originally Posted by FedupWNY

No one's yet to explain in detail what this "devastated blow" would be, besdies personal enjoyment. If Buffalo will be complete doomsday without the Bills, it might be easy to have the facts at hand, right?

Businesses and population aren't investing (in droves) in the Buffalo area only because we have a football team here. In all the years the Bills have been in Buffalo, we've been an area of declining population, economic strain and increased taxes. I'm not saying the Bills are the cause for 2 out of the 3, but what I am saying is that having that football team here hasn't made our living like that of Utopia. Many cities throughout the Country don't have a pro team, and they are probably surviving better off than Buffalo. Other cities without a pro team don't have the worry of tax increases for selective entertainment. Buffalo is an area where people are starving in the streets, yet Ralph Wilson, with his hand out, will always get his slice of corporate welfare pie. Yeah. Let's go Bills! Take taxpayers to the poor house.

I'm sorry, FedupWNY...We won't agree on everything. I'm not sure though you understand how important the BILLS truly are to Buffalo. Fan or not, it puts us on a major league city scale - without them we become some small town with some nice aspects to it, but not a true American City that it should sustain. We have the history here, and we need to build on it - not take it away. Thousands of gorgeous historic buildings in Buffalo have been torn down for parking lots, but the Historic and futuristic Buffalo Bills have lived and survived through the glory days and the rough and tough decline. Keeping them here would be a success story in itself, fan or not, if we pull through to keep the Bills in Buffalo where they belong (since the 1950s), it will show the nation that Buffalo can keep its large boons, and prosper on them, thus contributing in our road to a very bright future here in Buffalo, as we are growing once again.