Is Buffalo "Midwestern" (New York, Rochester: get credit, buy, university)

[MuddyAxles]

I am a nut for maps. I enjoy reading and comparing them. I once came across a map of language patterns and it showed exactly what many have said here, that, at the time the map was laid out, there is a distinct relationship of dialect extending from Western/Central New York area along a fairly narrow corridor extending along Lake Erie and points west, ending in a raindrop bubble in Iowa.

With that said, consider our country's westward migration. Consider, as well, the transportation systems as they developed. The Erie Canal brought inland goods to the coastal cities. It also brought settlers west to Buffalo and the Great Lakes to man the factories, farms, and businesses. That steady flow of malcontents (and happy folks as well) flavored the areas the Canal and the Lakes touched.

Later, the famed "Water Level Route" of the New York Central System carried thousands more westward, folks bringing their culture and possesions to populate the inland plains. These transportation systems linked cities along the way in many subtle ways.

So, the way I see it, Buffalo is not like the mid-West...the mid-West is like Buffalo, when there are similarities found. The flow of people was from East to West...still is for the most part, I guess.

As a side note:

I had to spend some time on Kansas City (both) about ten years ago. While driving around one week-end I came across two streets side-by-side. I didn't think much of it when I saw Wyoming Street, but knew someone had brought the names from "home" when I saw Genessee Street next on the block.


Also:
Buffalo was a great shipping port prior to the Welland Canal where as many as 250 lake boats (freshwater ships) would winter over. Until the Welland Canal and St. Lawrence Seaway opened the lakes to the ocean, Rochester had none of this exposure and, sadly, it all passes Rochester by today.

[Orwelleaut]

Originally Posted by truemuck

I'm originally from the Buffalo area and now I live in NE Ohio. This area feels like home to me because in many ways its similar to Buffalo. NYC might as well be in a different country as far as I'm concerned.

I agree. My job takes me up to Buffalo and Western NY frequently. I live in NE Ohio as well, near Ashtabula, and these trips to Western NY are always day trips. DOwntown Buffalo is only 140 miles from Ashtabula. Bearing in mind that Buffalo is 150 miles from Syracuse, 300 from Albany and over 400 from NYC, it makes total sense that this great lakes city feels more like Cleveland than like NYC. Cleveland is in the same part of the country!!!

This whole thing about whether Buffalo is Midwest or NOrtheast reminds me of the same issue with regards to Pittsburgh. Buffalo is around 190 miles from Cleveland, but over 400 from Boston or NYC. Pittsburgh is about 140 miles from Cleveland, but 300 from Philly. Why is it such a novelty to folks that Pitt and Buff feel more like Cleveland than like the East Coast when they are so much closer to Cleveland?? State lines are arbitrary boundaries, not cultural Berlin Walls with henchmen at the gates, LOL!!!! Thus, places that are close together have more in common with each other than places far apart. The State Line is just a political line. Folks in Buffalo may receive their car titles from Albany, but still live a lot closer to Youngstown and Ashtabula than to Albany. Political features of NY state aside, life in Buffalo has more in common with life in Cleveland by virtue of its' being in the same part of the country. Similar climate, most of all, but also a similar history and similar way of life. Anyone who thinks that folks in Ripley, NY, live a daily life more similar to NYC than to folks 50 miles away in Conneaut, OH, needs to spend more time in some tri-state areas, and they will find out that a state line is nothing more than a political formality.

[pirate_lafitte]

I have a hard time believing Buffalo is Midwestern. To me it is like an anomaly. Technically, it is part of the Northeast by default because it is in New York. It has cultural aspects more in tune with the Midwest than with most of New York. It is also on the Great Lakes so it is really a Great Lakes city.

[jblake78728]

When I think "Midwestern" places like St Louis, Kansas City, Cincinnati & Indianapolis come to mind ..... I don't believe Buffalo is like any of those places ...... but it is also nothing like NYC, Boston & Philly. I agree with the "Great Lakes" option as Buffalo is more like Cleveland, Toledo, Erie, Rochester & to a lessor extent Chicago & Detroit (those cities are also more like Buffalo than they are St Louis, Cincinnati, etc).

[Central Illinois 1]

I would consider Buffalo Upper Midwest. It is much more sinmilar to places like Cleveland, Detroit, Toledo, and other northern midwestern towns than it is to places like NYC, Philly, Boston, etc.

[Orwelleaut]

I agree, Central Illinois. Buffalo is at the Eastern end of the Upper Midwest if one considers Northern Ohio and the state of Michigan to be Upper Midwest. Buffalo feels more like Toledo than like Albany, and is 300 miles from each. Buffalo and Toledo are both Great Lakes cities, though, and have a feel that is found around the lakes until one gets into WI and Northwest IL. Kenosha and Rockford are the beginnings of the MN/WI Upper Midwest of intensely German/Scandinavian heritage, and feel very different from the Chicago to Buffalo neck of the woods, IMO

[Philabatavia]

YES. YES. A THOUSAND TIMES YES.


WNYers often claim to be East Coasters- I often need to correct them and remind them of their great lakes/midwestern nature. Half a minute spent talking at full Philadelphia/NJ/NYC speed about the differences in dialect and terminology is usually enough to prove this. The phonology is a drastic difference (you guys like your long vowels up here) and East Coasters also tend to cut and omit words for the sake of speed.

Also, your pizza. It's an entirely different animal, for better or worse.

This isn't criticism- just commentary. I like WNY, I moved here since it fits my nature/outdoors related hobbies and my wallet a lot better.

[garmin239]

You do know that there are other areas of the northeast besides NY/Philly/NYC?
People in VT talk different, have different pizza and customs. Does that make them midwestern? I don't know why so many people equate NYC/NJ = Northeast/east coast. The northeast comprises more than those places to include large cities to very rural areas.

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by Philabatavia

YES. YES. A THOUSAND TIMES YES.


WNYers often claim to be East Coasters- I often need to correct them and remind them of their great lakes/midwestern nature. Half a minute spent talking at full Philadelphia/NJ/NYC speed about the differences in dialect and terminology is usually enough to prove this. The phonology is a drastic difference (you guys like your long vowels up here) and East Coasters also tend to cut and omit words for the sake of speed.

Also, your pizza. It's an entirely different animal, for better or worse.

This isn't criticism- just commentary. I like WNY, I moved here since it fits my nature/outdoors related hobbies and my wallet a lot better.

I agree. But you judge a region by it's pizza

Definitely more in common with Chicago or Detroit than NYC, Boston, Philly, or Atlantic City.

[Philabatavia]

Originally Posted by garmin239

People in VT talk different, have different pizza and customs. Does that make them midwestern? .

No, that makes Vermonters Northeasterners not related to megalopolitan East Coasters. The logic is of course going to be a little fuzzy and a lot open to debate. I've been to VT a few times, I consider it and the rest of the northeastern interior such as northern NY as a 'Northeast' sphere of its own. And I also have been about MI, Northern OH and IN many times- this is where my perception of the "Midwest" comes from.