Not happy about moving to the area (Buffalo, Rochester: for rent, insurance)

[StampedeCity]

The topic starter sounds like a ***** that doesnt like any city

Buffalo is a safe city with tons to offer

[VegasRocks]

Actually Buffalo has the 3rd Worst population loss in the country
2 years in the a row. Only Detriot & New Orleans (because of Katrina)
are worst. Outrages & Insights: We're No. 3 - again

Add that with Buffalo being the 3rd Poorest city in the Country + highest
tax region in the country. It's funny how some say things are getting better ?????????? back in 2000 you had over 10,000 good paying auto worker jobs that have disappeared at GM, Ford, American Axle, Visteon & Delpi, Most of them have left with their family's or trying to leave as soon as they can sell
their houses

What Happen to the ?

Ethol Plant ?
Buffalo city Tower ?
The Stattler ?
Downtown Casino ?
The new Peace Bridge ?
50 Gate Circle ?
Paldino's new court st office building ?

The only thing that happens is totally government funded projects
or almost totally government funded

the new federal court house & the tearing down of the aud
(paid for 100% by tax payers) and they will use taxpayers money
to build a shall of a building and their hoping bass pro with rent it
What Happens if Bass pro doesn't come ???? let's see it's going on the
7th year and Bass Pro has signed nothing or spent a penny

Oh ya Where's Summer ? has their been one day you could go to the beach in WNY this year ? Oh no Winter's only a couple of months away

[Canerican]

Originally Posted by VegasRocks

Oh ya Where's Summer ? has their been one day you could go to the beach in WNY this year ? Oh no Winter's only a couple of months away

Come on, that's not fair! I have been thinking about that a lot. I don't go to the beach here (I don't like swimming in lakes), but it is too doggone could to even fish half the time. I went to a picnic on the 4th of July and froze myself.

But you are right. I have said it a million times. Until private investment comes to Buffalo in a big way we know we are still in decline. It is truly frustrating to see a city where every solution is "more government."

Some of us want Uncle Sam as far away as possible (or maybe David). I just want the NYS government to stop paying to bring businesses and services that I'll never use in a million years.

Yeah, and don't get me started with unions. It seems like every Democrat (and most Republicans for that matter) have to be in the pocket of the unions. Well I have news for you union shills - look at where the blue collar jobs have gone - to anti-union states.

You want GM to come back? You want new assembly jobs? Stop the unions for getting whatever the heck they want.

Buffalo isn't coming back any time soon, maybe in 20 years we'll have fresh faces and fresh ideas, most likely not. It will probably be a city so burdened by welfare that it won't be able to keep up and be forced to either make those bums work, or raise taxes to such a rate that it will drive even more people away.

It's so frustrating to live here. At least many people on this board see the problems, and the solutions... unfortunately you all moved away, and so will another guy with good ideas (me )

[accbqjx]

The Emperor wears no clothes.

I can appreciate where you're coming from. It's got to be a stressful situation to have to relocate period. It's obvious you've done plenty of research on this area. The citizens of Buffalo have for the most part adapted to this region. Pockets of desirable areas to live are the norm. It's brutal when you trying to find a place to live.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to tell it like it is. The government in the area can't get out of it's own way. We all know that. This area has so much potential, but that seems to be as far as it goes.

The poster is trying to do whats best for family.

Best of luck to you. You can make it work.

[BuffaloLight]

It is really sad when all you can see in life are all the negatives and non of the positives. I'm not really sure why every thread trails off into oblivion and ends up at the same constant lowest denominator of why Buffalo sucks. The same tired arguments.... over and over and over. Maybe the same 2 or 3 people should stop leading them there perhaps. My advice to the original poster. Talk to your fiance and voice your concerns to him and work on it from there.

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by HowardRoarke

wn, to the point where many live in a parallel universe to that of reality.

I've been shouted down on the Rochester boards, before, due to my insight into that area, and my confidence in explaining the ins and outs of it (a few who have done this are not even from the area/are recent transplants). Some of us have a life outside that of the City-Data Forums, and, yes, when we do post something perceived as negative by the kool aid drinkers, it's most likely based on hard facts and reality.

You get shouted down on the Rochester board because you continue to post a bunch of baseless claims and sweeping generalizations about the people in the area, get challenged, then go away. You did it again in later parts of you post about the people in the area and neighborhoods.

[HowardRoarke]

Originally Posted by garmin239

You get shouted down on the Rochester board because you continue to post a bunch of baseless claims and sweeping generalizations about the people in the area, get challenged, then go away. You did it again in later parts of you post about the people in the area and neighborhoods.

We know many folks in Rochester, and several in Buffalo, and the trends which are enabling folks to move away, and/or think twice about moving to there, have not improved, they've gotten worse.

There's a certain weirdness to people who harp on trivialities like Chase-Pitkin closing, and those trying to keep Wal Mart out of Buffalo (amongst other trivilaities endemic to Upstate). Some of Upstate culture are these ornery types who probably had it easy for decades, and now all of a sudden the rest of the world is leaving them behind. They won't or maybe can't cope with this, so they cling to a past which is not coming back, instead of rolling with the punches, dusting themselves off, and looking to the future. Pressure-group warfare, which is enabled by the media and politicos in NY, makes sure some of the locals are always riled up about something or another, which no doubt makes outsiders snicker. Parts of Upstate are filled with these folks who want things to stay the same, and many of them carry themselves with a certain arrogance and a hostile attitide towards outsiders, as well as anyone who challenges their "notions" of how the world should be run (read the letters to the editor of the Buffalo News and the D&C to get a taste of this).

The blame game is being played, over and over again, re manufacturing jobs, as well as other sectors which have suffered in NY. If the labor laws, taxes, regulations, utilities costs, etc., were not so out of whack, then Upstate, NY, would be ground zero for high tech manufacturing. With all the talent, great institutions of higher learning, etc., Upstate should be in the driver's seat. Alas, it is not, and now politicians are choosing winners and losers (think Schumer and Slaughter) in private industry, so it looks like they're trying to stem the tide of job losses. I work in high tech manufacturing, and saw the writing on the wall going back several years. A mismanaged company is one which needs to right itself, or simply be bought out or go out of business. Politicians in NY are rewarding/enabling bad behavior, and they're using tax revenues to do so. Net private job creation will continue to be zero (stagnant) over the long term unless the state and local governments lessen the burdens and stop picking winners and losers.

Health care and education jobs are vital, and improve the quality of life and standard of living of a given area. The problem is the job creation in Upstate has not been broad enough to support these jobs. Health care jobs are roughly 50% subsidized, and education jobs are subsidized anywhere from 50%-90% or so. The money has to come from somewhere. The broader economy in Upstate has not grown at all since the '90 recesssion, with regards to total private job numbers, in fact the numbers are about equal to what they were 20 years ago. This is not sustainable. With a stagnant private sector, plus a shrinking tax base, the long term looks bleak. Outsiders need to be aware of this before they decide to live in Upstate.

Two business owners I know personally have moved their operations out of Rochester within the last 4 months. 150+ well paying jobs gone for good, and across both companies about 60 folks decided to relocate (both companies are now in TX). 90 people are out of work 'cause two well run companies' owners got fed up and finally left NY (both are high tech contract manufacturing firms), with the #1 reason given that their customer base is now far away from NY state. These companies didn't put their hands out to the politicos (it takes a certain kind of pathetic to do that) to keep the doors open in NY. Meanwhile, Lousie Macintosh Slaughter, and others, court big fish (think Delphi/GM), and throw all manner of public monies at larger corporations with the hope said companies will keep a few jobs around, for a few more years (mostly union jobs). Don't believe everything the newspaper prints, or what the local media choose to report, and spin, on. Slaughter and others are getting their hands into private industry, and it's scary.

What I see here on this board is a certain elitism and arrogance which I witnessed first hand, while living in NY for 28+ years. The trends, stats, and personal experiences of folks whom have moved away run counter to many of the claims I've seen here. The vast majority of people whom have left NY are educated, skilled, and no doubt most have valuable work experience which is not easily replaced. The majority of folks whom have located in Upstate in the last several years are from the third world, which is a stat even the local media have reported on and one which cannot be argued. So, Americans who end up in Upstate are in the minority.

I don't have a problem with folks from Somalia locating to, say, Buffalo, it's just that there's no positive population growth across all demographics, which indicates an acknowledgment by outsiders of problems in the area, as well as people simply crunching numbers and deciding NY is not for them. Couple this with the fact Upstate's metros are notoriously segregated, and it stands to reason why there's such a "group think" mentality amongst so many, there. I've seen it on these boards, and witnessed it first hand. It's as if some folks just don't want to read and hear the truth.

So, the welfare people stay and choose to continue to live within that lifestyle (enabled by the state and local governments), more welfare people locate to NY from other states (think Henrietta Hughes), and the only positive population growth is within one narrow demographic, and is due to folks born in the Third World. The working locals who choose to stay shoulder an ever-increasing burden, which most Americans wouldn't tolerate.

Here's the brass tacks of it all-it's so bad in parts of Upstate that at this very moment, there are job openings in the middle of a Great Recession. This is not a positive, per say, it indicates there are not nearly enough locals to fill critical computer jobs, engineering jobs, etc., DESPITE the fact Upstate has outstanding institutions of higher learning, and a skilled workforce. This indicates there will be labor shortages once the economy starts to swing back around, and the boomers start to retire in droves. The out-migration of folks from Upstate over the last 40+ years is partly the reason why this is happening, and until the powers that be do something about it, and/or Upstaters get fed up and do something about it, the negative trends will continue.

When a casual observer like TLC notices the negatives she commented on, is speaks volumes of many folks who live in the area and who continue to tolerate and, perhaps, enable the BS.

Go ahead, now. Fire away.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by HowardRoarke

We know many folks in Rochester, and several in Buffalo, and the trends which are enabling folks to move away, and/or think twice about moving to there, have not improved, they've gotten worse.

There's a certain weirdness to people who harp on trivialities like Chase-Pitkin closing, and those trying to keep Wal Mart out of Buffalo (amongst other trivilaities endemic to Upstate). Some of Upstate culture are these ornery types who probably had it easy for decades, and now all of a sudden the rest of the world is leaving them behind. They won't or maybe can't cope with this, so they cling to a past which is not coming back, instead of rolling with the punches, dusting themselves off, and looking to the future. Pressure-group warfare, which is enabled by the media and politicos in NY, makes sure some of the locals are always riled up about something or another, which no doubt makes outsiders snicker. Parts of Upstate are filled with these folks who want things to stay the same, and many of them carry themselves with a certain arrogance and a hostile attitide towards outsiders, as well as anyone who challenges their "notions" of how the world should be run (read the letters to the editor of the Buffalo News and the D&C to get a taste of this).

The blame game is being played, over and over again, re manufacturing jobs, as well as other sectors which have suffered in NY. If the labor laws, taxes, regulations, utilities costs, etc., were not so out of whack, then Upstate, NY, would be ground zero for high tech manufacturing. With all the talent, great institutions of higher learning, etc., Upstate should be in the driver's seat. Alas, it is not, and now politicians are choosing winners and losers (think Schumer and Slaughter) in private industry, so it looks like they're trying to stem the tide of job losses. I work in high tech manufacturing, and saw the writing on the wall going back several years. A mismanaged company is one which needs to right itself, or simply be bought out or go out of business. Politicians in NY are rewarding/enabling bad behavior, and they're using tax revenues to do so. Net private job creation will continue to be zero (stagnant) over the long term unless the state and local governments lessen the burdens and stop picking winners and losers.

Health care and education jobs are vital, and improve the quality of life and standard of living of a given area. The problem is the job creation in Upstate has not been broad enough to support these jobs. Health care jobs are roughly 50% subsidized, and education jobs are subsidized anywhere from 50%-90% or so. The money has to come from somewhere. The broader economy in Upstate has not grown at all since the '90 recesssion, with regards to total private job numbers, in fact the numbers are about equal to what they were 20 years ago. This is not sustainable. With a stagnant private sector, plus a shrinking tax base, the long term looks bleak. Outsiders need to be aware of this before they decide to live in Upstate.

Two business owners I know personally have moved their operations out of Rochester within the last 4 months. 150+ well paying jobs gone for good, and across both companies about 60 folks decided to relocate (both companies are now in TX). 90 people are out of work 'cause two well run companies' owners got fed up and finally left NY (both are high tech contract manufacturing firms), with the #1 reason given that their customer base is now far away from NY state. These companies didn't put their hands out to the politicos (it takes a certain kind of pathetic to do that) to keep the doors open in NY. Meanwhile, Lousie Macintosh Slaughter, and others, court big fish (think Delphi/GM), and throw all manner of public monies at larger corporations with the hope said companies will keep a few jobs around, for a few more years (mostly union jobs). Don't believe everything the newspaper prints, or what the local media choose to report, and spin, on. Slaughter and others are getting their hands into private industry, and it's scary.

What I see here on this board is a certain elitism and arrogance which I witnessed first hand, while living in NY for 28+ years. The trends, stats, and personal experiences of folks whom have moved away run counter to many of the claims I've seen here. The vast majority of people whom have left NY are educated, skilled, and no doubt most have valuable work experience which is not easily replaced. The majority of folks whom have located in Upstate in the last several years are from the third world, which is a stat even the local media have reported on and one which cannot be argued. So, Americans who end up in Upstate are in the minority.

I don't have a problem with folks from Somalia locating to, say, Buffalo, it's just that there's no positive population growth across all demographics, which indicates an acknowledgment by outsiders of problems in the area, as well as people simply crunching numbers and deciding NY is not for them. Couple this with the fact Upstate's metros are notoriously segregated, and it stands to reason why there's such a "group think" mentality amongst so many, there. I've seen it on these boards, and witnessed it first hand. It's as if some folks just don't want to read and hear the truth.

So, the welfare people stay and choose to continue to live within that lifestyle (enabled by the state and local governments), more welfare people locate to NY from other states (think Henrietta Hughes), and the only positive population growth is within one narrow demographic, and is due to folks born in the Third World. The working locals who choose to stay shoulder an ever-increasing burden, which most Americans wouldn't tolerate.

Here's the brass tacks of it all-it's so bad in parts of Upstate that at this very moment, there are job openings in the middle of a Great Recession. This is not a positive, per say, it indicates there are not nearly enough locals to fill critical computer jobs, engineering jobs, etc., DESPITE the fact Upstate has outstanding institutions of higher learning, and a skilled workforce. This indicates there will be labor shortages once the economy starts to swing back around, and the boomers start to retire in droves. The out-migration of folks from Upstate over the last 40+ years is partly the reason why this is happening, and until the powers that be do something about it, and/or Upstaters get fed up and do something about it, the negative trends will continue.

When a casual observer like TLC notices the negatives she commented on, is speaks volumes of many folks who live in the area and who continue to tolerate and, perhaps, enable the BS.

Go ahead, now. Fire away.

While I agree that a lot of that is true, I think it depends on where you are in Upstate and how people adjust to the changes. Nowadays, you have to have some form of higher education to make it. It's not like say 30 years ago when you might be able to get away with a HS diploma and a strong work ethic.

Luckily, there are some companies in CNY like these companies: Sensis Corporation - Detect the Difference
MS2 | Lockheed Martin
Anaren Microwave - microwave components, subassemblies, LTCC, ceramic processing, Wireless, Space, and Defense Electronics, Amitron
PAR Government
Goodrich Home Page
SRC
Advanced Electronic Packaging Solutions - Endicott Interconnect

and others like these listed: Central New York Information Technology

Central New York Digital & Electronic Devices

Central New York Medical Technology
in the area. So, I think people might have to go back to school and companies need to market themselves more in order to see growth in their area.

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by HowardRoarke

We know many folks in Rochester, and several in Buffalo, and the trends which are enabling folks to move away, and/or think twice about moving to there, have not improved, they've gotten worse.

There's a certain weirdness to people who harp on trivialities like Chase-Pitkin closing, and those trying to keep Wal Mart out of Buffalo (amongst other trivilaities endemic to Upstate). Some of Upstate culture are these ornery types who probably had it easy for decades, and now all of a sudden the rest of the world is leaving them behind. They won't or maybe can't cope with this, so they cling to a past which is not coming back, instead of rolling with the punches, dusting themselves off, and looking to the future. Pressure-group warfare, which is enabled by the media and politicos in NY, makes sure some of the locals are always riled up about something or another, which no doubt makes outsiders snicker. Parts of Upstate are filled with these folks who want things to stay the same, and many of them carry themselves with a certain arrogance and a hostile attitide towards outsiders, as well as anyone who challenges their "notions" of how the world should be run (read the letters to the editor of the Buffalo News and the D&C to get a taste of this).



Go ahead, now. Fire away.

I made a post about your ignorant generalizations about the people in ROCHESTER and you come back with a long winded response about the economy of upstate(much of which I agree with).
I am making comments on your unfounded generalizations about the people of the area which are very very false. Sure there are some people like that, but no more than any other city. I travel all over and enounter those types in every city. I live in Rochester and nobody cares about Chase Pitken closing or a Wal Mart opening. Nobody is living in the past that I know. "Many" of us are not hostile to outsiders and are very welcoming. The mean spirited folks that harp on trivial things and don't like outsiders are the exception to the rule, not the norm.

[garmin239]

Originally Posted by HowardRoarke

Here's the brass tacks of it all-it's so bad in parts of Upstate that at this very moment, there are job openings in the middle of a Great Recession. This is not a positive, per say, it indicates there are not nearly enough locals to fill critical computer jobs, engineering jobs, etc., DESPITE the fact Upstate has outstanding institutions of higher learning, and a skilled workforce. This indicates there will be labor shortages once the economy starts to swing back around, and the boomers start to retire in droves. The out-migration of folks from Upstate over the last 40+ years is partly the reason why this is happening, and until the powers that be do something about it, and/or Upstaters get fed up and do something about it, the negative trends will continue.

Go ahead, now. Fire away.

I know for a fact that this comment is BS. In Buffalo and Rochester at least. I work directly with several employers that have a good amount of engineers and IT and there is NEVER a shortage of locals filling spots. In fact several HR persons I dealt with have told me that they receive a large volume of applications from persons out of state who once lived in the area, wanting to return.